Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

[Bumi]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Outplayed in what way?

+3 for Rose on PPG
+2 for Westbrook on RPG
Same APG
+2 for Rose on SPG
+4 EFF for Rose
+1 TO for Westbrook
Both shooting horribly

Difference that can't be defined by stats is Westbrook has lost games with his decision making while Rose has won them. I'm not saying they're far apart but the difference right now is there.

Excuse me for my liberal(and incorrect) application of the term "outplayed". Their level of play has been virtually identical. But, my point remains firm. People are on Westbrooks case about taking too many shots and his poor decision making. Well, perhaps they have a case. But to use it to validate claims of Rose's supremacy? That's a stretch. A big one. Especially when the same issues that have plagued Westbrook have also plagued Rose. But we don't often hear people taking issue with Rose 7 3PA per game dropping at a rate of 22%. Or taking 27 shots to score 24 last game against the Hawks. Or his 37% playoff FG percentage and mediocre turnover rate.

Rose is better than Westbrook, but the difference is negligible, and these playoffs certainly haven't definitively separated one from the other.

[Bumi]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I do agree, OKC has played tougher opponents and defenses than Chicago has in terms of the PG position.

But, I think it's clear as day as to the direct comparison of Rose/Westbrook.

I don't see how you can say that when their production has been relatively equal. Especially when you concede to the fact that Russell has played against stiffer competition.

I think Westbrook has taken excessive heat from people who expect him to bow down to Durant and curb and change his entire style. That's simply not going to get OKC a title, they need Westbrook to stay ultra aggressive. My thing is Westbrook does need to tone it down a bit and get his guys into more offense.

I'm kind of mixed about it actually. Some of the heat Westbrook has gotten is deserving. He's gotten a little cocky lately and it has directly lead to his recent streak of selfishness. He shouldn't be taking 30 shots in any game, and he most definitely should defer to Durant. But, I think his struggles have been a tad bit overblown.

Even though Rose's shooting percentage is awful, you can see that his feel of the game is at a higher level. It's like he knows the pulse of the game and adjusts accordingly. I don't sense that with Westbrook, instead I see that he tries to force the action a bit too much and basically take it upon himself to do most of the heavy lifting. All I want him to do is reign it in a bit and play a bit more under control with his decision making and speed.

Rose does have a better feel to the game. He's been a PG longer. Westbrook is relatively new to the position. He's still learning. Never the less, he still produces at a similar level to Rose.

Ultimately Westbrook's physicality and athleticism coupled with his defensive instincts leave him in a very reachable distance to Rose. But to say Rose has been outplayed I can't agree with at all.

As far as I'm concerned, they're a wash. And in my opinion, both need a little bit of work before I can definitively put them over CP3 or Deron Williams.

In fact if I swap them out directly, I really can't foresee Chicago as being legit as they are with Rose. If Rose came to OKC now that would be even more scary than they are now. But like I said the distance is very reachable.

Nothing would change. Bulls would still be contenders due to their excellent team defense and rebounding. Rose would become a second option, posting similar statistics with more assist at the expense of points.

[Altimus]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Excuse me for my liberal(and incorrect) application of the term "outplayed". Their level of play has been virtually identical. But, my point remains firm. People are on Westbrooks case about taking too many shots and his poor decision making. Well, perhaps they have a case. But to use it to validate claims of Rose's supremacy? That's a stretch. A big one. Especially when the same issues that have plagued Westbrook have also plagued Rose. But we don't often hear people taking issue with Rose 7 3PA per game dropping at a rate of 22%. Or taking 27 shots to score 24 last game against the Hawks. Or his 37% playoff FG percentage and mediocre turnover rate.

Rose is better than Westbrook, but the difference is negligible, and these playoffs certainly haven't definitively separated one from the other.

Rose often times doesn't have a choice. Sometimes the only option for him is to take a three when nothing comes out of the offense. I have no excuse for his poor FG% because he is struggling shooting the ball.

I agree with you on the turnovers though as that is one area he needs to improve.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I guess all I can say is that I wouldn't feel as confident as a Bulls fan with Westbrook as I do with Rose. That's all I can really say.

Westbrook's PG instincts are just not to Rose's yet, as you said.

Westbrook deserves criticism but a lot of it has gotten out of hand.

[Bumi]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I guess all I can say is that I wouldn't feel as confident as a Bulls fan with Westbrook as I do with Rose. That's all I can really say.

And that, I can understand. I just felt people were trying to use Westbrook's playoff performances as evidence that's he inferior to Rose, ignoring the fact that both he and Rose have been similarly productive. That's all.

Westbrook's PG instincts are just not to Rose's yet, as you said.

Westbrook deserves criticism but a lot of it has gotten out of hand.

Agreed.

[Altimus]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I've just seen what Charles said, pouting by Westbrook. I just don't like what I've seen mentally. As ex said, he needs to attack and stay aggressive but not to the point where he think he's Kobe.

[Muzyk23]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

westbrook imo is sometimes okc's weak point

[jeebs9]

I've just seen what Charles said, pouting by Westbrook. I just don't like what I've seen mentally. As ex said, he needs to attack and stay aggressive but not to the point where he think he's Kobe.

Been saying that to myself all night. I really like mike conley's game. He I plays alot like cp3.


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[jeebs9]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I had to post this lol...

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Been saying that to myself all night. I really like mike conley's game. He I plays alot like cp3.


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Bro you know people are gonna come at you for that comparison. Hahhaa

You come up with some interesting ones.

[JBH3]

I think Bumi addressed some very good points. Well stated and objective.

I didn't get to watch the game, but was Westbrook THAT bad?

He had 4 turnovers, but only one foul. Durant had 5 fouls....

Both KD and Russ shot 45%......

Maybe Westbrook was pressing to overcome a poor game 1 showing?

His game 2 was definitely an improvement judging by boxscores, and results.......

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I don't think many people thought he had a bad game last night.

I think most people would agree he had a good game. IMO, he could have had a much better game.

The poor decision making still plagued him last night either with forcing action, forcing shots or dribbling the air out of the basketball in the half court sets.

It was certainly a stark improvement from game 1.

[jeebs9]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Bro you know people are gonna come at you for that comparison. Hahhaa

You come up with some interesting ones.

I do it all the time. I throw out a quick statement and like the media. You guys burn it up lol. When I said that. I should of added "Mike Conley manages the game a little like CP3 does". haha Is that better?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I don't care what people say about Perk's value, whether they think it's overblown or whatever... This guy even on one leg is an anchor in the paint and in the locker room. Even with Serge missing a bit of playing time with that injury, Perk held it down.

Perk finally made an impact last night, and "the best PF in the world" was held to only 2 FG's. Now can he keep it up? Don't know but I hope he can get fully healthy by next year so he can really take this team to another level.

His value goes beyond a box score, defensive team stats and the basketball floor. People respect him and they listen. Perk seems like he knows what he's doing.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtAusU2TTm0x4zcOEAGEDES8vLYF?slug=mc-spears_thunder_hold_players_meeting_050411

[Altimus]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I like Conley, I don't think he'll ever be on the level as a CP3, D-Will, Rose, etc. but he is a good PG. Rarely do you see a player get overpaid and then match up his play to that contract.