Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony
Then what exactly was your point?
I don't see how one can watch Durant play, and not see that he doesn't typically miss shots around the rim. Be they layups or dunks. Perhaps you don't watch enough OKC games. I don't know. But your assessment is way off.
I agree. Typically, perimeter players don't put down nearly as many dunks as that. Especially consistently. As this wasn't the first season Durant eclipsed the "100 dunk mark".
Durant is the only superstar in the league whose a beneficiary of fast break points. Imagine that.
What about when 27% of Durant's offensive production(That's including FT's) came from around the rim, yet he still converted at a 70% clip?
Why is it that when 47% of Durant's at rim attempts were assisted, his conversion rate was still higher than any clip Melo has ever posted? Why is it that when 50% of Durant's at rim attempts were assisted, he posted a clip of 70%? Again, higher than any clip Melo has ever posted.
Why was Melo still hovering around the mid 50 and 60 percentiles when 63%(higher than any clip in Durant's career) of his shots were assisted? What about when 58% of his at rim attempts were assisted?
To better illustrate my point...
Melo:
07-08: 63% // 63 %AS
08-09: 66% // 58 %AS(57.9)
09-10: 57% // 49 %AS(48.5)
Oh, and for good measure, while he was in Denver this season.
10-11: 55% // 51 %AS
Durant:
08-09: 68% // 48 %AS(47.5)
09-10: 70% // 50 %AS(49.8)
10-11: 77% // 61 %AS(60.8)
So, even when Melo was assisted more than Durant on his at rim attempts, Durant finished with significantly higher conversion rates.
Obviously you did, because you didn't know. You're arguing that Durant can't get to the rim, and needs to be assisted, going so far as to claim that "Durant isn't even close in this regard", when Melo is generally assisted more around the rim. So much so, that his highest %AS ratio is two percentiles higher than Durant's, and he's finished with a couple %AS ratios higher than Durant's second highest.
Then I'm the only one on this board whose right.
Also. I made it quite clear that I wasn't arguing Durant was a superior finisher to LeBron and Wade.
I'm not arguing that fast break points influenece anything, really. That was your excuse. I was merely pointing out that all of their respective teams are within 3 fast break points per games of one another.
But, to put this in perspective...
Denver finished with 14 fast break points per game to OKC's 16 this season, and 15.1 to OKC's 15.7 last season. I'm sure that .6 difference in attempts contributed heavily to Durant finishing 10% better than Melo around the rim with significantly more dunks.
There's just so many excuses at this point for why Melo can't match Durant's conversion rate around the rim. Style, attempts, %AS, fast break points, etc. Anyways. Whatever the style, Durant finishes better.
Funny you mention that. Because I can actually provide you with "makes around the rim".
10-11: 77% 3.6A // 2.8 M > 66% 5.4A // 3.6 M
09-10: 70% 5.3A // 3.7 M > 60% 7.9A // 4.7 M
08-09: 68% 5.1A // 3.4 M > 57% 6.5A // 3.7 M
07-08: 61% 4.4A // 2.7 M < 66% 7.2A // 4.8 M
What does this tell us? That, despite the discrepancy in attempts, their respective makes are typically within a point of each other. In 08-09 for example, Melo throws up 1.5 more shots than Durant around the rim, yet has .3 more makes. In 09-10, Melo throws 2.6 more shots than Durant around he rim, yet has 1 more make. In 10-11, 1.8 more attempts, .8 more makes. In other words, regardless of attempts, makes, or even %AS, Durant finishes better than Melo around the rim.
So, you're correct. This really isn't up for debate. Durant is the better finisher. He shots lets while making a comparable number of shots. Hooray for efficiency.
My thoughts? I give respect to sample sizes, and Durant shoots too many three's.
Career 3pt %
Jefferson: 37%
Ridnour: 36%
Durant: 36%
I don't expect the trend to continue though. Jefferson and Ridnour have had more prime years, contributing to their superior percentages. If he stops settling as much, and gets back to what he was doing in 08-09 and 09-10, I suspect Durant will eclipse their career averages as soon as next season. Today though, I wouldn't argue that Durant is a superior 3pt shooter to either. It's prettier when he shoots it though. But basketball isn't about aesthetics. It's about production.
Then what exactly was your point?
I don't see how one can watch Durant play and not see that he isn't the most talented finisher. That's where statistics are clouding your judgement.
That is simply ridiculous and another example of how stats are not the end all you have been proclaiming them to be.
If Durant gets one fast break dunk every game and every other game gets two (which is the realm of possibility), he gets 125 dunks
Dunks are typically easy baskets. Plain and simple. The majority of dunks for wings come off of fast breaks and cuts to the rim. Dunks that are created off a players own dribble and own ball handling are atypical. They don't happen often.
By bringing this up, you are just reaffirming that the reason Durant's shot percentage is so high and his attempts are low is because he's not good at attacking the rim. He averages 1.6 dunks per game, leaving him with one shot per game that he gets at the rim aside from an easy dunk.
So when you factor that in (made dunks aside), that's 18 shots per game for Durant with only two of those coming at the rim.
Your logic is completely flawed when using "total dunks" to suggest that he has no problem getting to the rim. And it actually works against your argument.
By bringing this up, you are just reaffirming that the reason Durant's shot percentage is so high and his attempts are low is because he's not good at attacking the rim. He averages 1.6 dunks per game, leaving him with one shot per game that he gets at the rim aside from an easy dunk.
So when you factor that in (made dunks aside), that's 18 shots per game for Durant with only two of those coming at the rim.
Your logic is completely flawed when using "total dunks" to suggest that he has no problem getting to the rim. And it actually works against your argument.
If you look at how many of their at-rim attempts were assisted, you will see that all of those guys have a lot less than Durant. Most of Durant's close shots were assisted. Which to me would suggest that, based on the stats, these guys are getting themselves to the rim and don't need to be set up to finish at the rim. Durant is not even close in this regard
Why was Melo still hovering around the mid 50 and 60 percentiles when 63%(higher than any clip in Durant's career) of his shots were assisted? What about when 58% of his at rim attempts were assisted?
To better illustrate my point...
Melo:
07-08: 63% // 63 %AS
08-09: 66% // 58 %AS(57.9)
09-10: 57% // 49 %AS(48.5)
Oh, and for good measure, while he was in Denver this season.
10-11: 55% // 51 %AS
Durant:
08-09: 68% // 48 %AS(47.5)
09-10: 70% // 50 %AS(49.8)
10-11: 77% // 61 %AS(60.8)
So, even when Melo was assisted more than Durant on his at rim attempts, Durant finished with significantly higher conversion rates.
But, that's not something I even needed statistics to know.
You are the only one on this board that would say that Durant is better at getting to the rim and is a better finisher at the rim than LeBron, Wade, Rose, and Melo.
Also. I made it quite clear that I wasn't arguing Durant was a superior finisher to LeBron and Wade.
And just so you know, OKC has been one of the top teams in the league in terms of fast break points. OKC has gotten more fast break points than Denver over the last two years. So that argument against Melo, actually works against Durant.
But, to put this in perspective...
Denver finished with 14 fast break points per game to OKC's 16 this season, and 15.1 to OKC's 15.7 last season. I'm sure that .6 difference in attempts contributed heavily to Durant finishing 10% better than Melo around the rim with significantly more dunks.
These percentages are not comparable between the two because of they play much differently than each other. And when you think about their playing styles, it just makes sense as to why Durant's is higher
Melo both gets to the rim more than Durant and scores more points at the rim than Durant. Your stats should tell you that. Melo is better in that area. That's really not up for debate.
10-11: 77% 3.6A // 2.8 M > 66% 5.4A // 3.6 M
09-10: 70% 5.3A // 3.7 M > 60% 7.9A // 4.7 M
08-09: 68% 5.1A // 3.4 M > 57% 6.5A // 3.7 M
07-08: 61% 4.4A // 2.7 M < 66% 7.2A // 4.8 M
What does this tell us? That, despite the discrepancy in attempts, their respective makes are typically within a point of each other. In 08-09 for example, Melo throws up 1.5 more shots than Durant around the rim, yet has .3 more makes. In 09-10, Melo throws 2.6 more shots than Durant around he rim, yet has 1 more make. In 10-11, 1.8 more attempts, .8 more makes. In other words, regardless of attempts, makes, or even %AS, Durant finishes better than Melo around the rim.
So, you're correct. This really isn't up for debate. Durant is the better finisher. He shots lets while making a comparable number of shots. Hooray for efficiency.
Let me ask you, is Luke Ridnour a better 3pt shooter than Durant? I mean, Ridnour did have almost a 10% higher 3pt shooting percentage. So did Richard Jefferson. So that would almost have to mean that they both have more range and are better 3pt shooters right? I mean, Durant's percentage isn't even close to theirs.
What are your thoughts Bumi?
What are your thoughts Bumi?
Career 3pt %
Jefferson: 37%
Ridnour: 36%
Durant: 36%
I don't expect the trend to continue though. Jefferson and Ridnour have had more prime years, contributing to their superior percentages. If he stops settling as much, and gets back to what he was doing in 08-09 and 09-10, I suspect Durant will eclipse their career averages as soon as next season. Today though, I wouldn't argue that Durant is a superior 3pt shooter to either. It's prettier when he shoots it though. But basketball isn't about aesthetics. It's about production.
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