Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I completely agree with that.

But I think Melo would look better individually there than in NY. And the opposite for Durant in NY.. Speaking specifically on efficiency here. Not necessarily numbers.

The entire point of my posts wasn't even originally to compare the two of them. It was just to show that Melo is always labeled the inefficient, ineffective type of scorer. But really in comparison to other great scorers in league history he's really not much different. But we don't look back at those guys as "ball hogs" and etc. we look back at them as great players and scorers.

Is he efficient of a scorer as KD? Definitely not, but KD is in a rare class in that regard, we already knew that. But it isn't so drastic that its like comparing LeBron's efficiency to JR Smith's efficiency. And that's how a lot of people make it out to be.

But I've said here numerous times I feel Durant is a better player, smarter player, more efficient, continually improving player, etc.

We are on the same page, Melo does get way to much hate thrown his way, and a lot of it is misplaced, but he's never gonna shed that until he proves that he can get deep into the playoffs. But, I think sadly Melo's efficiency has gotten a bit lost in translation thanks to the media as far as the general public's perception goes.

Melo will get the respect he deserves when he gets farther into the playoff picture. I think he has to have a better cast of players around him and a certain coach to bring the best of him out.

Where Durant, can kind of create his own destiny. Not that he can do it all on his own, because he clearly can't, we saw that with westbrook out, but in the way that he gets it more then Melo, and he is more team oriented, and he makes a team better then Melo.

I believe strongly that New York would improve with Durant on that team. They wouldn't be world beaters, but Durant would make them better then Melo does, in more ways then one.

On the flipside Melo and westbrook would be lethal, but OKC would be worse with Melo.

[Go Miami]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Melo just scored 60 points on almost entirely contested jumpers within a half court set. Every game he has to get himself going and create his own looks. His team doesn't get stops, he doesn't get open shots in transition. He doesn't have a team that moves the ball. He's scoring basically the only way he can and he's doing it at a very high rate.

I guess I'm lost of the whole "ball stopper" thing. He holds the ball sometimes ok I get it we all get it. In most situations that's the point guards job, if it isn't moving the point guard is usually dribbling.. So we give Felton the ball? Yeah ok. If he's scoring at an efficient rate what's the different in him catching and shooting, than him catching jabbing 3 times then shooting? If the ball if going through the net at a high rate? What's the difference in that. Are you saying he should swing the ball? Because most other great scorers do not swing the ball. They shoot.

When I think of efficient scorers Carmelo Anthony doesn't come to mind. He's a volume shooter who's always been streaky and he happens to be on a bit of a hot streak now.

Sure, he's a better scorer than most of the league but he's not efficient.

[slimm44]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

One of the reasons that Durant works well on the Thunder is his ability and willingness to allow Westbrook to do his thing. If he couldn't do that genuinely, there is no way their offense functions. Putting Melo on that squad in Durant's place wouldn't work because he and Russell couldn't coexist on the court.

Here are three stats I haven't seen yet (at least I don't remember seeing them):

All stats are over the past 3 seasons:

Durant EFG% - 56%
Melo EFG% - 48%

Durant 17.8 FGA per 36 Minutes and 21.4 Assist %
Melo 20.4 FGA per 36 Minutes and 16.9 Assist %

Durant shooting splits over last 3 seasons - 50/41/88 and 29.1 points per game
Melo shooting splits over last 3 seasons - 44/38/83 and 26.2 points per game

[KG]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

When I think of efficient scorers Carmelo Anthony doesn't come to mind. He's a volume shooter who's always been streaky and he happens to be on a bit of a hot streak now.

Sure, he's a better scorer than most of the league but he's not efficient.

I didn't know a career 25pts a gamer scorer in the regular season & playoffs can be considered "streaky". OJ pretty much broke down the entire "efficiency" argument but I guess you missed those posts. Melo & Durant get their buckets in different ways. Advanced stats go a long way but unfortunately they cannot overcome perception. Great posts btw OJ. I really enjoyed reading them.

[slimm44]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I didn't know a career 25pts a gamer scorer in the regular season & playoffs can be considered "streaky". OJ pretty much broke down the entire "efficiency" argument but I guess you missed those posts. Melo & Durant get their buckets in different ways. Advanced stats go a long way but unfortunately they cannot overcome perception. Great posts btw OJ. I really enjoyed reading them.

I think streaky and inconsistent are equatable, here. Look at Melo's gamelogs and it'll show his streakiness/inconsistency. In the 41 games he's played this year, he's scored at least 20 points 34 times. That's a pretty solid stat. If you look at his shooting percentage in those 34 games, you'll find that he has the following splits:

Under 30% 1 time
Up to 35% 2 times
Between 36 and 40% 10 times
Between 41 and 45% 7 times
Between 46 and 50% 5 times
51% and over 9 times

He's had some ridiculous games this year:

45 points on 30 shots and 57%
34 points on 24 shots and 54%
29 points on 19 shots and 63%
35 points on 22 shots and 59%
32 points on 20 shots and 60%
and of course 62 points on 35 shots and 66%

He's also had some REALLY bad games:

22 points on 24 shots and 33%
22 points on 21 shots and 38%
32 points on 28 shots and 36%
25 points on 25 shots and 36%
23 points on 21 shots and 38%
25 points on 20 shots and 40%
30 points on 28 shots and 38%
27 points on 23 shots and 39%
27 points on 22 shots and 36%
26 points on 24 shots and 38%
29 points on 29 shots and 31%
29 points on 24 shots and 38%
26 points on 23 shots and 17%

Here are similar stats for Durant:

In the 45 games he's played this year, he's scored at least 20 points 41 times. That's also pretty solid stat. If you look at his shooting percentage in those 34 games, you'll find that he has the following splits:

Under 30% 0 times
Up to 35% 2 times
Between 36 and 40% 5 times
Between 41 and 45% 6 times
Between 46 and 50% 8 times
51% and over 20 times

He's only shot under 45% 8 times since the beginning of December when Westbrook went down.

Durant has had a lot of really good games:

54 points on 28 shots and 68%
48 points on 32 shots and 50%
46 points on 25 shots and 68%
41 points on 25 shots and 60%
37 points on 15 shots and 60%
37 points on 28 shots and 54%
36 points on 23 shots and 61%
36 points on 22 shots and 55%
34 points on 28 shots and 50%
33 points on 19 shots and 53%
33 points on 23 shots and 52%
33 points on 17 shots and 65%
32 points on 21 shots and 67%
32 points on 20 shots and 65%
32 points on 17 shots and 71%
31 points on 13 shots and 77%
30 points on 15 shots and 67%

He's also had a few bad games:

30 points on 18 shots and 39%
20 points on 13 shots and 39%
36 points on 21 shots and 38%
27 points on 21 shots and 38%
42 points on 24 shots and 38%
25 points on 22 shots and 32%
24 points on 16 shots and 31%

[KG]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I think streaky and inconsistent are equatable, here. Look at Melo's gamelogs and it'll show his streakiness/inconsistency. In the 41 games he's played this year, he's scored at least 20 points 34 times. That's a pretty solid stat. If you look at his shooting percentage in those 34 games, you'll find that he has the following splits:

Under 30% 1 time
Up to 35% 2 times
Between 36 and 40% 10 times
Between 41 and 45% 7 times
Between 46 and 50% 5 times
51% and over 9 times

He's had some ridiculous games this year:

45 points on 30 shots and 57%
34 points on 24 shots and 54%
29 points on 19 shots and 63%
35 points on 22 shots and 59%
32 points on 20 shots and 60%
and of course 62 points on 35 shots and 66%

He's also had some REALLY bad games:

22 points on 24 shots and 33%
22 points on 21 shots and 38%
32 points on 28 shots and 36%
25 points on 25 shots and 36%
23 points on 21 shots and 38%
25 points on 20 shots and 40%
30 points on 28 shots and 38%
27 points on 23 shots and 39%
27 points on 22 shots and 36%
26 points on 24 shots and 38%
29 points on 29 shots and 31%
29 points on 24 shots and 38%
26 points on 23 shots and 17%

This season, he's more likely to have a below average game and keep shooting than have an above average game and keep shooting. I assume that if you look back through his seasons you'll see this trend throughout.

Still, the majority of his games hover around his career shooting % (~45.5%). I agree in the sense that he's had some woeful shooting performances this year, some due to his play and some due to new teammates/decline of current teammates play (Felton, JR, Chandler to name a few). He's an alpha so I'm sure he feels that he needs to elevate his play until they elevate theirs. He's logging the majority of his minutes at PF so I wonder if the extra banging on D comes with a price on the other end considering he's never been in great shape and has to carry even more of an offensive load.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Wowowowowow @ KD being on his way to T-Mac status.

I can't lmfao

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Alright OJ, my responses:

Because we look far into things like FG% and eFG% and try to directly relate that to how efficient a player is.

Fortunately, I never use FG% but how else are we supposed to determine how efficient a player is shooting the ball?

Even PER which is a good overall stat

Not really, especially individually.

I would quote the rest of that post but basically it just says "How come we don't criticize other shooters like we do Melo?" You brought up the whole Melo/Efficient thing and all I can say is he gets criticized about that for a reason and the numbers/game tape will show that.

That's my take on the whole subject.

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Is it ok if I could take both? Solves everything for me lol

[ehh]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

That was a good back and forth with Ex and OJ. Both made good points. While OJ did a great job of breaking down the numbers Ex countered with the important aspect of what our eyes tell us.

In my opinion, the biggest difference in the two regarding the whole "time the ball is in their hands, seconds per possession, etc" is what's going on with the other four offensive players. With the Knicks, it's just give it to Melo on the elbow and everyone else stands still. No cutting, no fade-screens - nothing. With Durant, there's generally a constant flow of offense and players off-ball moving. That or Durant is making a pass towards the end of a set that he's waiting to develop.

It's sorta like the old "watching paint dry" thing - it probably looks like Melo is holding the ball a lot more because the game basically stops while he does his thing. With Durant, there's usually plenty of stuff still going on on the court. Just my two cents on that part of the debate.

[ehh]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Melo relies on his jumper so much that naturally he's going to be more inconsistent. Shooting is fickle, he's prone to bad games. Jordan and Kobe had plenty of 8/28 type shooting games too, even in the post season.

The other knock on Melo and his iso-heavy play is the post season. You face better defenses and in general defense is more intense. Thus far in NYC the post season has not been kind to Melo in terms of efficiency. Granted he hasn't had much help.

His career post season numbers in NY - FG at 40% and 3PT a tick under 30%.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Wowowowowow @ KD being on his way to T-Mac status.

I can't lmfao

Yeah. One of the best scorers ever to not win a ring. KD will never win a ring until he improves in every other area of the game besides scoring. He can start with his poor defense and developing a post game.

[mvspree8]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I don't think this is even close. Durant is unquestionably one of the 2 or 3 best players in the league. While Melo's rebounding really hasn't ever been better, he's still somewhere on the fringe of the top 15-20 players in the league to me right now.

[mvspree8]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Yeah. One of the best scorers ever to not win a ring. KD will never win a ring until he improves in every other area of the game besides scoring. He can start with his poor defense and developing a post game.

Durant has already had a better career than T-Mac.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Durant has already had a better career than T-Mac.

Pretty sure the OP said "status" not "Durant's career will mirror TMac's"