Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

[The15thunter]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

derrick rose is better.

[airjoca]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

@OP, stats DO lie. And its not even a debate, Rose by a mile.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose is clearly a better player. Not even taking into account stats or Rose's team having a better record or Russ having KD...but when you look at both of them play, Rose has the better skill set. He can finish with BOTH hands EFFORTLESSLY. He has a better form on his jumper, better handles. He doesn't play so out of control like Russ does. I think some of yall may have seen Russ do more posterizing dunks, but you must take into account while they're both listed at 6'3", Russ is taller than Rose.

[slimm44]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose is clearly a better player. Not even taking into account stats or Rose's team having a better record or Russ having KD...but when you look at both of them play, Rose has the better skill set. He can finish with BOTH hands EFFORTLESSLY. He has a better form on his jumper, better handles. He doesn't play so out of control like Russ does. I think some of yall may have seen Russ do more posterizing dunks, but you must take into account while they're both listed at 6'3", Russ is taller than Rose.

I don't know about this part. My biggest knock on Rose's offensive game is he still has a tendency to be inconsistent, mainly because he forces up some crazy stuff sometimes and because his jumper doesn't fall as much as it will later in his career.

He'll go full-steam into a crowd of defenders and shoot a 15 foot drifter with a hand in his face way too often. He also forces WAY to much when attacking the rim and isn't overly efficient there because of it, sometimes double-clutching or trying to do one-too-many moves.

I believe a lot of this is because most of the time his teammates are sub-par offensive players. Boozer was supposed to be the second scoring option this year but he didn't play as well as was expected. Deng and Gibson had pretty good years but both of them are still 3rd options. If Rose had a legit number 2 scoring option, or a legit 1st option that he could be 2nd option to, he'd be more efficient from the field and would easily hit 20 point 10 assist averages for entire seasons.

[Bizelta]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose win by far. Comparing Westbrook to Rose is not even fair.

[1Rose]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose is the better player. The difference is marginal though. They both belong in the same tier.



Not really. The playoffs showed us the Bulls are good enough defensively and rebounding wise to fight through Rose, at times, being horribly efficient.

Oh god, please save it. Especially with your "efficiency" stats.

The difference is not marginal, it's not even close.

The playoffs showed us that Rose can only do so much when he's double teamed every time he touches the ball (i.e. Pacers/Heat series)

And how limited they are on offense seeing he's the only player that is a threat.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Another thread like this?

[Champion8877]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

HA! im a Thunder and a Westbrook fan and even i lol'd when i saw this even mentioned. no way is Russ better than Rose. Rose by far wins. now if you want to argue CP3 vs. Rose that is actually a depatable subject

[DC35]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

HA! im a Thunder and a Westbrook fan and even i lol'd when i saw this even mentioned. no way is Russ better than Rose. Rose by far wins. now if you want to argue CP3 vs. Rose that is actually a depatable subject

Not it isn't CP3 healthy is clearly better than Rose...Rose vs Russ is very debatable it is close but Rose has him beat

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

How do Rose and Westbrooks Bumis compare?

[Po Pimp]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

I don't know about this part. My biggest knock on Rose's offensive game is he still has a tendency to be inconsistent, mainly because he forces up some crazy stuff sometimes and because his jumper doesn't fall as much as it will later in his career.

He'll go full-steam into a crowd of defenders and shoot a 15 foot drifter with a hand in his face way too often. He also forces WAY to much when attacking the rim and isn't overly efficient there because of it, sometimes double-clutching or trying to do one-too-many moves.

I believe a lot of this is because most of the time his teammates are sub-par offensive players. Boozer was supposed to be the second scoring option this year but he didn't play as well as was expected. Deng and Gibson had pretty good years but both of them are still 3rd options. If Rose had a legit number 2 scoring option, or a legit 1st option that he could be 2nd option to, he'd be more efficient from the field and would easily hit 20 point 10 assist averages for entire seasons.

Well as a person who watched 98% of every game Rose played for the Bulls, the reason why he forces the issue is because of the reason u stated in your last paragraph, and also because it's part of his natural progression to get more FT attempts. Rose's rookie season, he averaged 3 FTA/game. 2nd season, he became an all star so you would THINK he'd get more FTs...but he averaged around 4-5 FTA. This past season he won MVP, so you would think he'd get the superstar D-Wade and LeBron calls...but he averaged about 6 compared to LeBron and Wade's 9. Rose understands that by putting pressure on the D and getting to the line, you put the defense in a pickle. However, a lot of his shots, he did not get the call for whatever reason (possibly due to the fact that he can actually MAKE those shots).

Do I agree with every shot he takes? No, but it's kinda frustrating as a Bulls fan to see Westbrook bulldoze his way to the hole with no chance of making a shot, and get a whistle, whereas D-Rose tries to make the shot with contact and there's no whistle. He did start getting to the line in the playoffs, so maybe that translates to next season.

[Bumi]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Oh god, please save it. Especially with your "efficiency" stats.

Being a Derrick Rose fan, I understand your weariness of advanced statistics. But, they aren't my stats. They belong to those who accumulate them. In this case, that would be Rose.

The difference is not marginal, it's not even close.

Yes it is. In fact, it's very close. Scary close. They're essentially the same player, with Rose being the better scorer(more shots, more minutes), and Westbrook being the better defender and rebounder. Rose, overall, is the better player, but the difference is slight.

Rose: 25/4/8/55 TS%

Westbrook: 22/5/8/54 TS%

Rose finished with more points. Westbrook finished with more rebounds, assist, and steals. Rose logged 200 more minutes over the course of the season.

In other words. They're very comparable players in their current roles. Oddly enough, they finished with identical PER ratings. And before I'm asked, I can't say how each would fair in the others situation.

The playoffs showed us that Rose can only do so much when he's double teamed every time he touches the ball (i.e. Pacers/Heat series)

Every superstar is double teamed. It's the nature of basketball. That doesn't excuse him of his horribly low 49 TS%. 5 points lower than the league average. Especially in his 3rd playoff appearance. But it's cool, Westbrook posted an equally dismal TS%. Lending credence to the two's parallels.

And how limited they are on offense seeing he's the only player that is a threat.

Part of the reason the Bulls are limited offensively has a lot to do with Rose's inability to get and keep is teammates involved. I very much doubt CP3, when healthy, would struggle with the Bulls supporting cast. Deron Williams as well for that matter. One thing Rose could do to help in this area, from my perspective, is become a better PnR player.

Anyways, to get back on topic. I have Rose a spot ahead of Westbrook as the 3rd best PG in the league.

1. CP3
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash

[Bumi]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Do I agree with every shot he takes? No, but it's kinda frustrating as a Bulls fan to see Westbrook bulldoze his way to the hole with no chance of making a shot, and get a whistle, whereas D-Rose tries to make the shot with contact and there's no whistle. He did start getting to the line in the playoffs, so maybe that translates to next season.

Perhaps the reason Westbrook got to the line .8 times more than Rose this season, had something to do with Rose settling for 385 3pt attempts, and Westbrook settling for 103? Or, maybe Westbrook's slight advantage in FT's attempts, had something to do with his slight advantage in at rim attempts? Just an idea.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Perhaps the reason Westbrook got to the line .8 times more than Rose this season, had something to do with Rose settling for 385 3pt attempts, and Westbrook settling for 103? Or, maybe Westbrook's slight advantage in FT's attempts, had something to do with his slight advantage in at rim attempts? Just an idea.

Ok, what about each of their first 2 seasons when Westbrook averaged more 3PA AND more FTAs? Like I said earlier, I've seen almost every game Rose has played for the Bulls, and the reason Westbrook gets to the line more than Rose is because Rose doesn't sell the calls...i.e, Rose gets penalized for not flopping on plays.

[Bumi]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Bumi, there is more to basketball than just statistics.

I use statistics for context, not to formulate an opinion. When comments such as...

This

it's not even close.

And...

i lol'd when i saw this even mentioned.

That are made. A little perspective is needed.

Also, there's a reason two thirds of the NBA franchises fall back on these statistics to help determine draft choices, trades, and other roster moves.