Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

[ZB9]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose earned the MVP of the NBA this season..while Westbrook is not the MVP of his own team

Comparing Westbrook to Rose is not really fair to Westbrook imo

[wwharton]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

People are going a little Harden crazy. Boozer would be a much better "offensive" fit for that team. The reality is Harden played his role a lot better than Boozer did during the playoffs which may be skewing perception a bit, but then Deng stepped his game up too. Durant is a valid piece to the discussion, but I don't think Harden really sways things one way or the other... if anything, if we're ignoring the Durant factor, the Bulls have more offensive weapons to point to hands down.

[Schisms]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

I like cake

[Drewski]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

For the record. I'd like to say I went through almost all of this thread, and this whole Bumi only relies on stats thing is pretty inaccurate - especially in this thread. He threw up stats like once... maybe twice... and the rest of it has been contextual argumentation. I know it's easy to say his argument is lolstats but don't let the assumptions created based off of the Melo/Durant thread drip into this one. Honestly, I have yet to see an argument that makes me feel like Rose is head and shoulders above Westbrook, the only conclusion I can make from this thread is that Rose and Westbrook are very close comparitively. I'm not saying that's how I feel, it may be may not be, but thats what this thread has wrapped itself into. Anyone care to tell me why Rose is -so much better- than Westbrook, I'd love to see a convincing argument. And don't tell me it's because he won MVP for a reason.

[wwharton]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

For the record. I'd like to say I went through almost all of this thread, and this whole Bumi only relies on stats thing is pretty inaccurate - especially in this thread. He threw up stats like once... maybe twice... and the rest of it has been contextual argumentation. I know it's easy to say his argument is lolstats but don't let the assumptions created based off of the Melo/Durant thread drip into this one. Honestly, I have yet to see an argument that makes me feel like Rose is head and shoulders above Westbrook, the only conclusion I can make from this thread is that Rose and Westbrook are very close comparitively. I'm not saying that's how I feel, it may be may not be, but thats what this thread has wrapped itself into. Anyone care to tell me why Rose is -so much better- than Westbrook, I'd love to see a convincing argument. And don't tell me it's because he won MVP for a reason.

I think you can point to reasons why he won MVP. The Bulls went through the entire year missing BIG TIME players (for their team) and he was at the center of getting them the best record in the league despite that. That's not really measurable but very real. When you look at that, while Westbrook seemed to have more issues with the PG role while having a star like Durant next to him the entire way, one can make the assumption that Westbrook wouldn't be able to lead a team to the best record in the NBA like Rose did.

For the record, I'm just answering your question and I personally think they're pretty close. Westbrook doesn't get the chance to prove whether or not he can take his game to that level so it's kind of hard to really judge either way. But I also don't think Rose can really be criticized for many negatives he's shown when he's had to force the issue so much and it's resulted in W's. Either way, I don't think there are any numbers that can make a great case for either one.

[Drewski]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

I think you can point to reasons why he won MVP. The Bulls went through the entire year missing BIG TIME players (for their team) and he was at the center of getting them the best record in the league despite that. That's not really measurable but very real. When you look at that, while Westbrook seemed to have more issues with the PG role while having a star like Durant next to him the entire way, one can make the assumption that Westbrook wouldn't be able to lead a team to the best record in the NBA like Rose did.

For the record, I'm just answering your question and I personally think they're pretty close. Westbrook doesn't get the chance to prove whether or not he can take his game to that level so it's kind of hard to really judge either way. But I also don't think Rose can really be criticized for many negatives he's shown when he's had to force the issue so much and it's resulted in W's. Either way, I don't think there are any numbers that can make a great case for either one.

That's sound logic, I can dig it. I think their talent levels are close, but I don't think Westbrook could have led the Bulls to that record, or the ECF. That's a pretty good way to bring that perspective into play. Easier to do here than the KD/Melo thread. Maybe not fair to Westbrick, but accurate for what the circumstances currently are regardless.

Funny thing is I would think Rose would have more FTA than Westbrook, but Westbrook has more. My initial thoughts had Westbrook shooting the Bulls out of games, while Rose's driving would have him at the line more to slow it down and getting the freebies, but that just isn't the case. Still, I just can't see Westbrook leading a team to the best record out East and earning the MVP award.

[wwharton]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

I'd have to really go through their games but I get the feeling that Westbrook's shot helps him get to the line more (along with Durant being around). Defenders would be smart to force Rose into a jump shot. Easier said than done, but trying to keep him in front of you without worrying as much about him pulling up can result in fewer fouls. I also see Rose shooting jumpers more in that kind of situation too (besides 3's), which means he wouldn't try to get people in the air with a pump fake as much... probably bc it wouldn't work as much, which is how guys like Wade gets a lot of trips to the line.

[slimm44]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

For the record. I'd like to say I went through almost all of this thread, and this whole Bumi only relies on stats thing is pretty inaccurate - especially in this thread. He threw up stats like once... maybe twice... and the rest of it has been contextual argumentation. I know it's easy to say his argument is lolstats but don't let the assumptions created based off of the Melo/Durant thread drip into this one. Honestly, I have yet to see an argument that makes me feel like Rose is head and shoulders above Westbrook, the only conclusion I can make from this thread is that Rose and Westbrook are very close comparitively. I'm not saying that's how I feel, it may be may not be, but thats what this thread has wrapped itself into. Anyone care to tell me why Rose is -so much better- than Westbrook, I'd love to see a convincing argument. And don't tell me it's because he won MVP for a reason.

This year, Rose and Westbrook's stats weren't all that separate, both have elite athleticism/jumping ability, both are drive/shoot first PG's, both are inconsistent with their jumpers, etc. What Rose showed me this year wasn't that he could put up stats that were world's better than any other PG or player for that matter, but that he could get it done when it mattered.

Throughout the regular season, the Bulls had a great defense and a decent offense. When the game was on the line, the ball was in Rose's hands and he came through several times. I don't have the stats to show how he was in the clutch (check 82games.com if you want), but I remember watching several games where it was at the end of the game or at least a pivotal point in the game and Rose would either hit the shot that was needed, get a defensive stop, get to the line, or set up a teammate for the shot.

His shooting stats and jumper were inconsistent at times, but his decision making and his ability to make the right play usually weren't. To me, that's why he was the MVP. The Bulls needed him to be a volume scorer, and with that you're going to have some inconsistencies. IMO, It wasn't a numbers thing, it was a consistently coming through when it mattered thing.

[vikes26]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

But Westbrook closed a lot of games for the Thunder too. Westbrook has also been a shooting guard all his life up until his sophomore year of college I believe(someone correct new if I'm wrong here); and that makes a big difference. While they are both scores first I think that rose can be a better playmaker right now even though he averages less assists, that would most likely be because he is more comfortable being a passer whereas Westbrook is more comfortable doing what he has been doing his whole life, which is, scoring. I also do believe that Westbrook is a more well-rounded player but isn't a more complete player if that makes sense.

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose is a better scorer, finisher, dribbler, rebounder, passer, has better vision, is more clutch, has a better shot selection, is quicker and more versatile than Westbrook.

Tough call.

[Drewski]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

Rose is a better scorer, finisher, dribbler, rebounder, passer, has better vision, is more clutch, has a better shot selection, is quicker and more versatile than Westbrook.

Tough call.

Opinion, opinion, opinion, opinion, opinion. Tough call.

This year, Rose and Westbrook's stats weren't all that separate, both have elite athleticism/jumping ability, both are drive/shoot first PG's, both are inconsistent with their jumpers, etc. What Rose showed me this year wasn't that he could put up stats that were world's better than any other PG or player for that matter, but that he could get it done when it mattered.

Throughout the regular season, the Bulls had a great defense and a decent offense. When the game was on the line, the ball was in Rose's hands and he came through several times. I don't have the stats to show how he was in the clutch (check 82games.com if you want), but I remember watching several games where it was at the end of the game or at least a pivotal point in the game and Rose would either hit the shot that was needed, get a defensive stop, get to the line, or set up a teammate for the shot.

His shooting stats and jumper were inconsistent at times, but his decision making and his ability to make the right play usually weren't. To me, that's why he was the MVP. The Bulls needed him to be a volume scorer, and with that you're going to have some inconsistencies. IMO, It wasn't a numbers thing, it was a consistently coming through when it mattered thing.

Another good argument here. I'm starting to see the separation from an argumentation standpoint, not an emotional one. Gotta separate the two fellas.

[cubsball899]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

everyone continues to say that Rose is a scorer first... when he really isn't. the knock on him prior to this year (going back to before his NBA days) was that with his abilities he was too much of a facilitator. the bulls front office practically had to beg him to start taking the lion's share of the shots and he started to do that consistently this season

[slimm44]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

everyone continues to say that Rose is a scorer first... when he really isn't. the knock on him prior to this year (going back to before his NBA days) was that with his abilities he was too much of a facilitator. the bulls front office practically had to beg him to start taking the lion's share of the shots and he started to do that consistently this season

He took 17 shots a game two years ago and 19 shots a game this year.

To me, that = shoot first PG. Maybe it's because of the system, but regardless, it is what it is. I don't think anybody's saying it like it's a bad thing.

[cubsball899]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

He took 17 shots a game two years ago and 19 shots a game this year.

To me, that = shoot first PG. Maybe it's because of the system, but regardless, it is what it is. I don't think anybody's saying it like it's a bad thing.

fair enough... sometimes i feel like people are using it against him, when its the bulls organization in his ear telling him to do that

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Debate: Russel Westbrook vs Derrick Rose

He took 17 shots a game two years ago and 19 shots a game this year.

To me, that = shoot first PG. Maybe it's because of the system, but regardless, it is what it is. I don't think anybody's saying it like it's a bad thing.

But that's why you can't exactly look at just stats to determine things. Two years ago he was still taking a backseat to Ben Gordon in the offense. I don't see how he's a shoot first point guard two years ago when practically all of Chicago was begging the guy to step up and take over the team as it's PG like he was suppose to because Ben Gordon was still dominating the team.