NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Alright so take this with a grain of salt but I was reading an insider article and this portion stood out to me (not posting the entire article is this cool?) This was stated by a western conference executive by the way just a portion of what he said.

” Most of the teams that are in the lottery are the ones that are also going to be responsible for us losing the season.The most poorly run franchises are the ones that need the hard cap. They're the same ones that need revenue sharing. Should we just give them extra draft picks, too?"

Seems like this front isn't as united as Stern wants everyone to believe, this sentiment is probably shared by a lot of other executives/team owners.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Alright so take this with a grain of salt but I was reading an insider article and this portion stood out to me (not posting three entire article obviously)



Seems like this front isn't as united as Stern wants everyone to believe, this sentiment is probably shared by a lot of other executives/team owners.

14 Lotto teams, 16 Playoff teams.

Just saying, if that was the problem, then the playoff teams would win.

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

14 Lotto teams, 16 Playoff teams.

Just saying, if that was the problem, then the playoff teams would win.

Not that easy there are a lot of playoff teams that have owners who are pretty set like the Celtics, Grizzlies, possibly the Hawks new owner/management and so on. It's a tricky subject because owners seem to sway this way one day then that way the next.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I think the two side are too far apart on fundamental things for a last min save. A hard cap would significantly reduce player negotiating power evening signing contracts. There's no way they give without a huge fight. Huge fight equal lost games.

I dont think there will be a hard cap. I think the hard cap is just a negotiating ploy by the owners. I have a feeling that we will end up with the flex cap that the owners offered back in June.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I dont think there will be a hard cap. I think the hard cap is just a negotiating ploy by the owners. I have a feeling that we will end up with the flex cap that the owners offered back in June.

I have said all along there is no way we see a hard cap. Player and big market owners don't want it. The compromise will mostly likely be a more solid cap and higher luxury taxes.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I have said all along there is no way we see a hard cap. Player and big market owners don't want it. The compromise will mostly likely be a more solid cap and higher luxury taxes.

I agree and if thats the case, I think the deal can be done in the next few weeks.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I agree and if thats the case, I think the deal can be done in the next few weeks.

That's the thing though if it was a player vs owner thing I would agree this gets solved sooner. But owner vs owner is a bigger problem that won't get solved as quickly IMO. Because both sides can hold out longer, and generally both sides have bigger egos. I don't see Dan Gilbert and company backing off easily even at the cost of a missed season.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

That's the thing though if it was a player vs owner thing I would agree this gets solved sooner. But owner vs owner is a bigger problem that won't get solved as quickly IMO. Because both sides can hold out longer, and generally both sides have bigger egos. I don't see Dan Gilbert and company backing off easily even at the cost of a missed season.

With owner vs owner, I don’t think it’s much of a problem in a sense where if Stern wants to get the votes to pass the CBA, he can get it. Gilbert to me doesn’t seem like he has that much pull with the owners. He talks a good game but if this was a case where Stern has to exhort his power to save the season and Gilbert was in his way, I’m putting my money on Stern.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The Flex Cap is basically a Hard Cap. Any system that has a concrete number which you can't exceed is a hard cap no matter what you call it.

I see the NBA getting the same system as the NHL. There's going to be a hard cap with a minimum floor that will be tied in with revenue's so the cap numbers will be different every season.

The Owners have told the players they want a hard cap for over 2 years now. I don't see why they would change their stance now. Once the players start missing cheques, they will eventually cave in. This is a battle they won't win.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

With owner vs owner, I don’t think it’s much of a problem in a sense where if Stern wants to get the votes to pass the CBA, he can get it. Gilbert to me doesn’t seem like he has that much pull with the owners. He talks a good game but if this was a case where Stern has to exhort his power to save the season and Gilbert was in his way, I’m putting my money on Stern.

Gilbert and Sarver singlehandedly killed off the most recent proposal that the players conceded in.

Not saying they are running the show, but they definitely have the power to where Stern cannot simply boss them around.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The Flex Cap is basically a Hard Cap.

It most certainly is not.

Teams can easily go over the cap to either sign players or re-sign their own players.

There is no hard cap.

With all that said, I don't think the NBA is going to get a hard cap. I do think, though, that the penalties for going over the flex cap are going to be severely upgraded and revenue sharing is going to get a boost too.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Gilbert and Sarver singlehandedly killed off the most recent proposal that the players conceded in.

Not saying they are running the show, but they definitely have the power to where Stern cannot simply boss them around.

Stern doesnt need their votes. He only needs 16. Also I think their power has been overstated. What killed the last meeting was the players demand that the NBA keep the same system if they lower their guaranteed revenue percentage.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

It most certainly is not.

Teams can easily go over the cap to either sign players or re-sign their own players.

There is no hard cap.

With all that said, I don't think the NBA is going to get a hard cap. I do think, though, that the penalties for going over the flex cap are going to be severely upgraded and revenue sharing is going to get a boost too.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/06/21/labor-meeting.ap/index.html

It basically is.

The Flex Cap would have a ceiling (for example the cap would be 62 million dollars but you can still spend up to 75 million if you're signing your own players). The Owners don't see this as a Hard Cap but the Players do. I side with the players on this issue. Any system that has a ceiling is a hard cap.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/06/21/l....ap/index.html

It basically is.

The Flex Cap would have a ceiling (for example the cap would be 62 million dollars but you can still spend up to 75 million if you're signing your own players). The Owners don't see this as a Hard Cap but the Players do. I side with the players on this issue. Any system that has a ceiling is a hard cap.

In short I think I agree and the players do too which is what they were saying... the flex cap is a hard cap in disguise

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The Flex Cap is basically a Hard Cap. Any system that has a concrete number which you can't exceed is a hard cap no matter what you call it.

I see the NBA getting the same system as the NHL. There's going to be a hard cap with a minimum floor that will be tied in with revenue's so the cap numbers will be different every season.

The Owners have told the players they want a hard cap for over 2 years now. I don't see why they would change their stance now. Once the players start missing cheques, they will eventually cave in. This is a battle they won't win.

Well then the NBA has a hard cap now then. There is a set limit on spending in the association now. I don't know what the number is, but it's under 100mil. Is that a hard cap?

To off set the tighter ceiling the floor will be much tighter as well.