NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

In short I think I agree and the players do too which is what they were saying... the flex cap is a hard cap in disguise

There's a huge distinction between flex cap and hard cap. Technically the league has a flexed cap now. It's just a very soft version. What I think will eventually get agreed upon will be a firmer flex cap. With a ceiling of about 10-15% of the salary cap.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Well then the NBA has a hard cap now then. There is a set limit on spending in the association now. I don't know what the number is, but it's under 100mil. Is that a hard cap?

To off set the tighter ceiling the floor will be much tighter as well.

Under the last CBA, there was no hard cap.

There was a luxury tax. If a team wanted to spend 150 million on players, it could do so. There was no team payroll ceiling which is why the players loved the last CBA.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

What's with the reports that Sarver is pretty soft on the issue of a "hard cap"?

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

What's with the reports that Sarver is pretty soft on the issue of a "hard cap"?

I heard that too. I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN got that wrong. What sucks is Sarver can't comment because of the league wide gag order.

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Well I just read another pretty interesting article in my opinion:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/comme...t-logic-flawed

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

If a deal isn't done by Oct 6....the league will miss games. They only have 2 weeks to agree to a deal, get union and owner approval and draft the agreement. They need to start working toward that this week in order to make that happen. The threat of missing actual games is here.

You're more optimistic than me because I haven't heard or seen anything to make me believe that all of a sudden they're going to rush and get something done just in time to get a full season started.

So what happens if nothing gets done tomorrow?

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Under the last CBA, there was no hard cap.

There was a luxury tax. If a team wanted to spend 150 million on players, it could do so. There was no team payroll ceiling which is why the players loved the last CBA.

There is no way a team can triple the salary cap.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

You're more optimistic than me because I haven't heard or seen anything to make me believe that all of a sudden they're going to rush and get something done just in time to get a full season started.

So what happens if nothing gets done tomorrow?

I can show you articles from Chris Sheridan, USA Today, Chris Broussard at ESPN and Ken Berger at CBS who feel a deal could and probably will be done by Oct 6 and avoid missing games. I actually haven't found seen any one who follows the negotiations day to day that have stated there are no way the season will start on time.

Also its not a rush. Its the same thing the NFL went through. There was no significant movement until there was a real deadline. After that the two sides were able to work out a deal. There is a real deadline now. We get into the second week of Oct. without a deal and the league will be forced to cancel games.

I'm not guaranteeing a deal will be done and I'm not saying that they will walk out with a deal done tomorrow. What I'm saying is I could easily see both sides walking out of Thurs. meeting agreeing to talk again on Friday or had a bigger meeting Monday or Tuesday.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

There is no way a team can triple the salary cap.

Well yeah no team can spend triple the cap amount but what I'm trying to point out is that under the old system, you could have a big difference in payroll between teams.

For example, the Lakers paid about 110 million (this figure includes luxury tax) for salaries while the Kings only paid about 45 million in salaries last season.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I can show you articles from Chris Sheridan, USA Today, Chris Broussard at ESPN and Ken Berger at CBS who feel a deal could and probably will be done by Oct 6 and avoid missing games. I actually haven't found seen any one who follows the negotiations day to day that have stated there are no way the season will start on time.

I read all those articles as well and what they've been saying is really no different than what some folks here are saying and all Broussard said was that he THINKS something will get done.

Also its not a rush. Its the same thing the NFL went through. There was no significant movement until there was a real deadline. After that the two sides were able to work out a deal. There is a real deadline now. We get into the second week of Oct. without a deal and the league will be forced to cancel games.

But wasn't there more urgency for the NFL to get one done in time because they were risking losing $1 Bil or a real high amount if they missed the Preseason? How much is the NBA losing from missing games in October? Serious question but I don't think they'll suffer from missing 4-5 games in the season. Now if it's 20-30 games they're missing, then it's a problem but I think we're still a ways away from reaching that point.

Plus with the NFL, everyone knew there would be no way for the players to go from sitting around from January/February and then all of a sudden start getting ready to play meaningful games just like that because it would take them AT LEAST a few weeks, if not more to get back in actual game shape. NBA Players, how long does it really take for MOST of them to get back into game shape? Probably not as long as it would take the NFL Players.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I read all those articles as well and what they've been saying is really no different than what some folks here are saying and all Broussard said was that he THINKS something will get done.


But wasn't there more urgency for the NFL to get one done in time because they were risking losing $1 Bil or a real high amount if they missed the Preseason? How much is the NBA losing from missing games in October? Serious question but I don't think they'll suffer from missing 4-5 games in the season. Now if it's 20-30 games they're missing, then it's a problem but I think we're still a ways away from reaching that point.

Plus with the NFL, everyone knew there would be no way for the players to go from sitting around from January/February and then all of a sudden start getting ready to play meaningful games just like that because it would take them AT LEAST a few weeks, if not more to get back in actual game shape. NBA Players, how long does it really take for MOST of them to get back into game shape? Probably not as long as it would take the NFL Players.

Hold up Pack. You said originally that you haunt read anything where anyone said a deal would be done that allowed a full season but now you say you read all those articles that say that. Sheridan and the USA Today article say exactly what I'm saying....that a deal will be done by early October and that no games will be missed.

We aren't talking about October games. We are talking about missing November games. The league will need at least 3-4 weeks to get ready for a season. At least 1 week for FA, 1 week for Training Camp and one for preseason games. That means a deal has to be done by the first week in Oct to prevent missing games.

I don't have an estimate but we aren't talking about chump change if there are no November games. Every season ticket holder gets a refund plus 2% for every missed game. No arena revenues from parking, concessions and merchandise. Plus most owners will not be able to replace those dates because its difficult to schedule concerts and events on short notice.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Hold up Pack. You said originally that you haunt read anything where anyone said a deal would be done that allowed a full season but now you say you read all those articles that say that. Sheridan and the USA Today article say exactly what I'm saying....that a deal will be done by early October and that no games will be missed.

No, I said that I haven't seen or heard anything to make me believe that they're going to RUSH(between now and next week)to get something done just to make sure they'll have a FULL season started in time. Especially since Oct 1, which is the date most have predicted to have a deal done by, is a week away and they're still in the same position they were a few weeks ago. My bad for not clarifying this.

We aren't talking about October games. We are talking about missing November games. The league will need at least 3-4 weeks to get ready for a season. At least 1 week for FA, 1 week for Training Camp and one for preseason games. That means a deal has to be done by the first week in Oct to prevent missing games.

They'll miss 4-5 games meaning the first week or so of the season. You really believe they'll suffer from missing the first week of the season? And if that happens and a deal gets done later, the only thing that'll probably be different is that they probably won't have preseason games, so they'll still have 1 week for FA/Trades and 1 week for Training Camp and then they could probably jump right into the regular season.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

According to John Canzono of the Oregonian, the owners have decided on two “amnesty clauses” to go into the new labor deal. That is something the owners and players have to discuss, but these deals would allow teams to waive a couple of players and get some salary cap relief (the players still get paid their contract).

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[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Id be shocked if anyones thinking along the lines that its ok to miss a couple of games because they have 70+ more to go...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

But it also wouldn't be a severe or significant blow to the NBA like it would be if they were to miss half or all of the season, is that accurate to say?