Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[23]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Oh lord lets not start that again

that renders that lockout useless in the first place

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Advanced Statistics (oh, I know, blasphemy in basketball, but hey, it won the Mavericks a championship) showed that OKC played nearly just as efficiently both offensively and defensively with Maynor on the court with the four other starters as Westbrook on the court.

I get it, Westbrook is special. The problem is what kind of special do you want? You can say there are a bunch of Ibaka's floating around in the league and I'll say there are a bunch of Westbrook's too. There are other guards his size that can score and pass the rock while also giving you a heart attach every time he jacks up a bad shot.

He's been in the league only 4 years. I don't care. I think that's more than enough time to figure out a guy. Players simply do not change, they can only get better. They don't suddenly become rebounders when they aren't. They don't suddenly stop taking bad shots because they want to. If that's how they are, that's how they will always be.

I respect Advanced Statistics and all, but this is also the same stuff that'll sell people on some BS that the Nets are a middle of the pack team right now or that the Nets are better off starting Jordan Farmar at the point and bringing Deron off the bench


I'm not saying he's some special, rare breed of a PG but I also don't think Ibaka is the difference between OKC going to the Finals or barely getting out of the 1st rd, which apparently that's all WB is now...all based on ONE series, when last I checked he wasn't the one allowing Dirk to go off in that series.

Prior to last year, Ibaka was just your everyday athletic PF who would get all his buckets off putbacks and Alley Oops and would get you an occasional highlight reel-esq block. But we don't look at him as the SAME player we seen THEN and why? Because he's shown that he can improve other facets of his game. But since WB had one bad series, he'll never change his game or improve or what we see is what we'll get from him?

And I don't believe that what we see now isn't what we're going to see for the rest of his career because most players have shown that they CAN change and adjust in their situation.

Can they become better shooters? Sure. But Westbrook's problems aren't the type that go away. It will always be a problem.<!-- / message -->

But what is his problem? Forcing the issue too much or taking unnecessary shots at certain times? You're telling me these are problems that can't go away?

Yes its a risk but Ibaka isnt the only part of it. Its the Lux tax, its James Harden, its believing this guy will be all of what Red stated and all of that in a bundle

But we're talking as if they won't try to make any moves to get it to work. They're FO has been acknowledged as one of the best in the league so there's no reason to think they can find a way to be able to keep Westbrook and Harden.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

But what is his problem? Forcing the issue too much or taking unnecessary shots at certain times? You're telling me these are problems that can't go away?

If, as the PG, he is shielding out the best player on the team just so he can get his, that is your #1 problem.

You can script the best plays in the world but if the PG has an agenda, no matter how good he is, it's not gonna work.

I don't think Westbrook has the mental capacity to do whatever it takes for the good of the team. If he's hellbent on showing the world that he's not Robin or just as good as Batman...that kind of thinking might change only when he's on a team by himself.

If this isn't screaming KG & Marbury Part 2 then I don't know what is.

[Drewski]

As far as Ibaka I'm just saying in general, not in value versus WB. Just generally shocked a weak side shot blocker with a very unrefined game is regarded as highly as it seems.

Not sure how many gms take Ibaka over WB.

As far as WB goes I can understand the hesitation in locking 90 mill in him for x amount of time, but that has alot to do with Maynors upside.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

If, as the PG, he is shielding out the best player on the team just so he can get his, that is your #1 problem.

You can script the best plays in the world but if the PG has an agenda, no matter how good he is, it's not gonna work.

I don't think Westbrook has the mental capacity to do whatever it takes for the good of the team. If he's hellbent on showing the world that he's not Robin or just as good as Batman...that kind of thinking might change only when he's on a team by himself.

If this isn't screaming KG & Marbury Part 2 then I don't know what is.

Hasn't been a problem since then so he must've changed SOMETHING about his game. Or are people going to wait til they have their first losing streak before saying "See, I told you he hasn't changed!!". Crazy what one playoff series does to a player's public perception. But then again, Dirk had to go thru this unfortunately for most of his career so I guess Westbrook's gotta go thru it as well because we all know if the Thunder lose in the playoffs, who's going to get majority of the blame for that.

As far as WB goes I can understand the hesitation in locking 90 mill in him for x amount of time, but that has alot to do with Maynors upside

I'm curious to know what the upside Maynor has now considering he just blew his knee out. I'm also curious to see if they'll keep him around(don't know his contract off the top of my head ATM)considering they just drafted Reggie Jackson from BC last year.

[Drewski]

Hasn't been a problem since then so he must've changed SOMETHING about his game. Or are people going to wait til they have their first losing streak before saying "See, I told you he hasn't changed!!". Crazy what one playoff series does to a player's public perception. But then again, Dirk had to go thru this unfortunately for most of his career so I guess Westbrook's gotta go thru it as well because we all know if the Thunder lose in the playoffs, who's going to get majority of the blame for that.


I'm curious to know what the upside Maynor has now considering he just blew his knee out. I'm also curious to see if they'll keep him around(don't know his contract off the top of my head ATM)considering they just drafted Reggie Jackson from BC last year.

Totally forgot Maynor blew his knee up. WB looking better suddenly

And WB needs to score on that OKC team as it's currently built and playing.

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[CMH]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I respect Advanced Statistics and all, but this is also the same stuff that'll sell people on some BS that the Nets are a middle of the pack team right now or that the Nets are better off starting Jordan Farmar at the point and bringing Deron off the bench

But no one has said that. You can make an argument about this if this was said, but no one has so what are you pulling here?

It's funny that anytime someone jokes about advanced statistics they always use fantasy scenarios to explain why facts can't be real.

But what is his problem? Forcing the issue too much or taking unnecessary shots at certain times? You're telling me these are problems that can't go away?

Both of those things. Name a player that has a history of making mental mistakes that somehow stopped doing it.

If you can name one, I'll shut up about this conversation. Seriously. I'm not saying it as a challenge, but basing this on what I've seen and continue to see. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll eat it.


Let me add that I'm being very hard on Westbrook here. I don't mean to make it sound like he's a garbage player. Taking Bill Simmon's analogy, he's a $1 bill. Easy.

I'm not sure where I even got into the conversation of him taking too many shots or being a head case (I probably used it to support my argument which is foul, I admit). I only want to suggest that the Thunder would be better holding onto two .50 cent players like Ibaka and Harden than one $1 player especially when Harden has a shot at being a $1 bill.

[WTF]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/01/18/best-bargain-in-basketball-no-more/?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Kevin love close on extension w/ the Wolves. 4 Years, 60 Million extension. Great extension for the Wolves if it gets done.

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/01/18/cavs-ilgauskas.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Big Z back to the Cavs!

[Drewski]

Wow k love, that's a great contract if that's how it goes down

Second thought not 100% I'm paying k love 13-14-15-16. I'd want to see the season play out a bit more, but I believe there's a deadline on extensions. Sooner than later the team needs to condense their talent. I think he's worth it but this teams makeup and guys who will grow out of rookie contracts would make me think about if I'm 100% on Love being that guy

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

But no one has said that. You can make an argument about this if this was said, but no one has so what are you pulling here?

It's funny that anytime someone jokes about advanced statistics they always use fantasy scenarios to explain why facts can't be real

I wasn't trying to say that Advanced Statistics are a joke or whatever(my bad if you thought that was my intent). Not saying they can't be true but this what it usually does, especially in Basketball.

Both of those things. Name a player that has a history of making mental mistakes that somehow stopped doing it.

If you can name one, I'll shut up about this conversation. Seriously. I'm not saying it as a challenge, but basing this on what I've seen and continue to see. I could be wrong and if I am, I'll eat it.

Deshawn Stevenson.

When he was in DC he never seen a shot he didn't like and one year he was like 60-220 from the field and his percentage was between 25-35%(Going off the head but I think it was around 08-09). Since then, he's not regarded as Captain Chucker anymore because he adjusted his game and no longer pulls up 3 the second he crosses half court.

Another player that had some "mental issues" as well is Pau Gasol. in 08, he let KG basically punk him around and was almost a non factor in that series. That must've did something for him because after that series the next 2 playoff trips in 09 and 10, he wasn't same Gasol that he was when he arrived in LA.

I'm not trying to say that ALL players can do this(had mental mistakes and then all of a sudden stopped having them)because we've all seen players just simply say "Screw it, this is who I am and I will never change" but there are some that have made the change and corrected those issues and I'm not ready to say that Westbrook can't make the change.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

One thing I will say...this cat Shawne Williams...is there anyway we can send him back across the river? Along with that other bum SheWill?

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Wow k love, that's a great contract if that's how it goes down

Second thought not 100% I'm paying k love 13-14-15-16. I'd want to see the season play out a bit more, but I believe there's a deadline on extensions. Sooner than later the team needs to condense their talent. I think he's worth it but this teams makeup and guys who will grow out of rookie contracts would make me think about if I'm 100% on Love being that guy

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If he signs that deal that easily becomes one of the best if not the best deal for an all star in the NBA for their front office. Let's not forget Tyson Chandler just signed that same deal and he isn't close to the player Kevin Love is. If there is one guy you don't have to worry about working hard and playing up to his deal it is Love. The man is giving you 25 and 14. There is no doubt he is worth it and he is a easy player to build around.

From a front office standpoint it is a great deal. You still have plenty of cap space to put whatever kind of pieces you need around and he is a team first work hard kind of player.

[WTF]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Exactly, throw in the fact that stars of his caliber normally aren't willing to sign deals to play in Minny. That's the type of dude that you want as a franchise cornerstone. Bigs are tough to come by. Rebounding Bigs w/ touch are even tougher to come by. If you get one, who's willing to sign a GOOD deal, do it in a heartbeat.

[Drewski]

I agree that's the best direction no doubt. LMA is a great comparison and he's in for 11 13 14 15

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[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Props to Kevin Love and the TWolves.

Also rumors of the Wolves shopping Beasley. Might as well get something while you can.

He can score. But his baggage is heavy.