What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

We've all seen what Andrew can do when healthy [which albeit hasn't been much because he's always hurt] but you can't use the Jason Kidd reference here.

The reason LA didn't trade Andrew before was because of his unknown potential. Well over the years we've seen what he can do. It's exceptional for a center, but nowhere near Dwight Howard.

It's easy to fall in love with guys like Horford, Gasol, Noah. You know exactly what you're gonna get out of them, and let's not act as if their production isn't exceptional. Andrew is always up and down.

[Weeks]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

Wow. This has got to be a first on OS. Kudos to you man.

lol

Yeah lol, no reason to argue when he clearly stated obvious "errors" in my argument.

[PrettyT11]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

None taken. lol


I honestly don't know if you have something against Bynum or whatever. But seriously though Ex? You'd take 5 players ahead of a healthy Bynum? Joakim Noah? The hell man?

If all those guys were coming out of college, I guarantee you that Howard and Bynum would be 1 and 2. You're not picking Noah ahead of Bynum as the cornerstone of a dying franchise. What is that? lol

If you don't think that a healthy Bynum is as good as Howard, that's fine. But to suggest that a healthy Andrew Bynum could never be in the same breath as Howard is going overboard.

To put things into perspective, here is another look at Bynum's production:

Bynum
22 PPG
67% FG
70% FT
13 REB
2 BLK

Those are Bynum's numbers when Pau Gasol went down during two separate stretches in 2010. Those are all star numbers. Nobody that you mentioned gives you that kind of production.

The only player that does is Howard. And these numbers come from the 09-10 season. So it's fair to assume that Bynum would have improved since then.

22 PPG on 67% is better than Howard has EVER done. And yet some of you think that Bynum could never be on Howard's level. I really fail to understand that. And this is coming AFTER his injuries.

I would say that Bynum is a better rebounder than Howard. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that his rebound numbers would be higher if he wasn't playing with the guys he plays with. Howard's rebounding prowess is inflated. Kobe Bryant averages 5 rebounds a game. That's the same amount that The Magic's second best rebounder on the team gets. lol

Howard is a better defender. But the gap isn't that wide. Bynum does a good job of getting his hands up on defense when in position and blocks/alters his fair share of shot attempts. He also doesn't allow easy baskets at the rim as we've all seen. lol

Strength is debatable. But I'd give that to Bynum. He's 20 pounds heavier than Howard. That is a huge factor and anybody who has played ball would know this from experience. I don't know how anybody can outright say that Howard is stronger. Especially factoring in the weight difference.

Bynum is the better offensive player now and he's 2 years younger than Dwight. He is very skilled in the post, offering up an array of moves from hooks over both shoulders, to a turnaround jumpshot. He can also step out and hit the 10 footer. Plus his size is just too much of a problem for most. He's 7 feet tall and long as hell. He is physical down low and has more weight on him than most that would guard him. His physical attributes alone make him a tough cover with or without the skillset he possesses.

He also makes his freethrows at a decent clip which makes him an even tougher cover as you can't just hack him and send him to the line.

So again, while I'm not saying that Bynum is definitely better, I am saying that when healthy, especially if he never had his previous injuries, Bynum could be just as good or even better than Howard.

Come on now my man you are better than that. This period of time you are talking about was just 16 games. Are we really going to try and use a 16 game sample to compare to what a guy does for a whole season year in and year out?? I could find you 16 game runs of plenty of guys where they put up all star numbers. Secondly the numbers you posted are wrong. In those 16 games Bynum's numbers was actually 18.75 points on 56 percent shooting with 11.86 rebounds. While those are good numbers they fall behind what Howard has done the past five years. So again even a so called healthy Bynum without Gasol still doesn't match up to Howard's production from five years ago let alone what he gave you last year.

Defensively yes the gap is huge. Nobody impacts the game more defensively than Howard. There really is no reason to even try to compare them defensively. Howard is the three time running DPOY and Bynum hasn't even come close to even making All NBA defense second team. I would say Chandler, Bogut, and Noah are all better defensively than Bynum.

As far as a draft of centers and who GM's would pick I wouldn't say Bynum is the clear cut number two by any means. I'm with ex on taking Horford before Bynum. Besides him though if we are giving Bynum the magic health pill then we have to give it to everybody else. If we are doing that then there is no question I'm taking Al Jefferson before Bynum. Before Al tore his ACL Al was giving 23 and 11 a night with around two blocks(the year before he was at 21 and 11). He was destroying anybody they put in front of him. He is now coming back to health but at full health there is no question big Al was better. Regardless of health though Al is easily the better offensive player and nobody has better post moves than him. The only advantage Bynum has on Al is defense.

Nobody is saying Bynum isn't good or doesn't have potential but you can't compare something we have never really seen to something we have seen from Dwight every night.

[1Rose]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

I love how any stats can be skewed to make an argument seem valid. Smfh

Talk to me when the guy can actually stay on the floor for an entire 82 game season and isn't the 4th option on his team.

[TMagic]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

We've all seen what Andrew can do when healthy [which albeit hasn't been much because he's always hurt] but you can't use the Jason Kidd reference here.

The reason LA didn't trade Andrew before was because of his unknown potential. Well over the years we've seen what he can do. It's exceptional for a center, but nowhere near Dwight Howard.

It's easy to fall in love with guys like Horford, Gasol, Noah. You know exactly what you're gonna get out of them, and let's not act as if their production isn't exceptional. Andrew is always up and down.

Andrew is always up and down because he's been the fourth option on offense behind Kobe, Pau, and Odom. In the games without Pau, he was very consistent. It's unreasonable to expect consistency out of your 4th option. When the whole team is healthy, Bynum's role has been to play defense and rebound. That's all they expected out of him.

And Bynum was showing signs of being a great center in this league. He became untouchable that year because of his production, his improved play, and the impact he had game in and game out. And he was only 20.

It wasn't a question of "Will he be good?". It was more along the lines of "We've got something special here."

Come on now my man you are better than that. This period of time you are talking about was just 16 games. Are we really going to try and use a 16 game sample to compare to what a guy does for a whole season year in and year out?? I could find you 16 game runs of plenty of guys where they put up all star numbers. Secondly the numbers you posted are wrong. In those 16 games Bynum's numbers was actually 18.75 points on 56 percent shooting with 11.86 rebounds. While those are good numbers they fall behind what Howard has done the past five years. So again even a so called healthy Bynum without Gasol still doesn't match up to Howard's production from five years ago let alone what he gave you last year.

Defensively yes the gap is huge. Nobody impacts the game more defensively than Howard. There really is no reason to even try to compare them defensively. Howard is the three time running DPOY and Bynum hasn't even come close to even making All NBA defense second team. I would say Chandler, Bogut, and Noah are all better defensively than Bynum.

As far as a draft of centers and who GM's would pick I wouldn't say Bynum is the clear cut number two by any means. I'm with ex on taking Horford before Bynum. Besides him though if we are giving Bynum the magic health pill then we have to give it to everybody else. If we are doing that then there is no question I'm taking Al Jefferson before Bynum. Before Al tore his ACL Al was giving 23 and 11 a night with around two blocks(the year before he was at 21 and 11). He was destroying anybody they put in front of him. He is now coming back to health but at full health there is no question big Al was better. Regardless of health though Al is easily the better offensive player and nobody has better post moves than him. The only advantage Bynum has on Al is defense.

Nobody is saying Bynum isn't good or doesn't have potential but you can't compare something we have never really seen to something we have seen from Dwight every night.

Let's not look at like I it was a 3 game span. He did it for 16 games. And through different points in the season. So it wasn't like he just had a good week or two. I think that's a fair sample size that makes it relevant to the discussion. Pau missed 17 games in 09-10. 18 if you include the game where he went down midseason. Andrew played in 15 of those games.
I actually did screw up my math though. I was using 15 games, when it should have been 16 games to find the averages. Here are his numbers without Pau in the 2010 season:

Bynum
19.75 PPG
57.9% FG
10.50 RPG
1.750 BPG

(I thought that FG% was kind of high. lol)

Those are still great numbers from a center. And keep in mind that he was only 22 at the time and playing second fiddle to Kobe and at other times, Lamar.

I'd like to recant my statement that Howard is only slightly better than Bynum defensively. He's way ahead of Bynum there. I was on my way to work thinking, "'TMagic', Howard is an absolute stud on defense man. What you talkin' bout?" But I will say that Bynum is good in his own right. Just ask the Lakers how much his presence was missed in 08.

I'd like to reiterate that I'm not saying Bynum is a better player than Howard. Just that it's not outlandish to think that the two could be a par barring injuries and if Andrew is given the opportunities that Howard receives now.

[TheMatrix31]

Does "healthy" mean he's cured of whatever makes him a dirty thug punk too? Because if so, then yeah he'd be pretty good.

[JBH3]

I'd like to reiterate that I'm not saying Bynum is a better player than Howard. Just that it's not outlandish to think that the two could be on par barring injuries and if Andrew is given the opportunities that Howard receives now.

I would like to focus on this aspect of your post.

Bynum is who he is and Howard is who he is. You simply cannot bar injuries because this fundamental aspect of the game determines who in essence is truly the better athlete....who in essence can better adapt/overcome and succeed through the rigors of 82 games/yr + playoffs.

Had Green Bay not won the superbowl could they then excuse themselves given the abundance of injuries their team suffered in that 2011 season?

Its like sayin Bynum could be the best center ever if he simply could see the court consistently, or like saying Tim Tebow could be the greatest QB ever...if he only had an arm like Joe Montana.

[Hotobu]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

I would like to focus on this aspect of your post.

Bynum is who he is and Howard is who he is. You simply cannot bar injuries because this fundamental aspect of the game determines who in essence is truly the better athlete....who in essence can better adapt/overcome and succeed through the rigors of 82 games/yr + playoffs.

Injuries aren't necessarily "who a player is." If an injury diminishes a players' ability a la Ron Harper or Anfrenee Hardaway that's one thing, or if a player is chronically injured like Greg Oden or Yao Ming that's something as well. Andrew Bynum fits into none of those categories.

First off one of those injuries was a freak one when him and Kobe collided in Memphis. Something like this is just bad luck and it's not the same as him a "deeper" malady like Brandon Roy, or Grant Hill. Secondly Bynum is young. He's still in his early 20s so he can heal from something like this. Also not going deep into the playoffs last year, and a shortened season this year will be a big help. When's the last time anyone's given a second thought to Dwyane Wade's injury issues? Or Amare's Knee?

The truth is that avoiding injuries is an equal amount of luck, conditioning, and genetics. If George Gervin, and then Orlando Woolridge fall back the wrong way after a rebound early in Michael Jordan's career then suddenly he'd have been "injury prone"

Had Green Bay not won the superbowl could they then excuse themselves given the abundance of injuries their team suffered in that 2011 season?

Its like sayin Bynum could be the best center ever if he simply could see the court consistently, or like saying Tim Tebow could be the greatest QB ever...if he only had an arm like Joe Montana.

Good god this logic just just... seriously terrible. The Green Bay analogy barely makes sense since you're comparing a team to an individual. Green Bay would have obviously been a better team with those guys, so what's your point. And the Tebow one... ugh. Now you're comparing a skill gap to diminshed play time?... just stop.

[JBH3]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

Injuries aren't necessarily "who a player is." If an injury diminishes a players' ability a la Ron Harper or Anfrenee Hardaway that's one thing, or if a player is chronically injured like Greg Oden or Yao Ming that's something as well. Andrew Bynum fits into none of those categories.

Bynum not chronically injured? What does this thread's title suggest then?!

First off one of those injuries was a freak one when him and Kobe collided in Memphis. Something like this is just bad luck and it's not the same as him a "deeper" malady like Brandon Roy, or Grant Hill. Secondly Bynum is young. He's still in his early 20s so he can heal from something like this. Also not going deep into the playoffs last year, and a shortened season this year will be a big help. When's the last time anyone's given a second thought to Dwyane Wade's injury issues? Or Amare's Knee?

In the same hypothetical breath I could say that, replace Bynum w/ Howard running into Kobe, and Dwight survives. I would say that Dwight is the more physical of the two, and is banging bodies a lot more than Bynum and his 50 games a season. Dwight has held up...missing only 7 games in a 7 season career. How many of those games were a suspension (technical fouls), or random day off?

Bynum just isn't the same chizzled frame. He is a highschool body that unlike Dwight and his freakish athletics, was not ready for the NBA upon coming from Highschool.

As far as Amare and Wade are concerned, Amare has played in at least 78 games 6 yrs in his career. Wade has 3 years of at least 76 games played. Bynum has never started in 70 games in a season.

Good god this logic just just... seriously terrible. The Green Bay analogy barely makes sense since you're comparing a team to an individual. Green Bay would have obviously been a better team with those guys, so what's your point. And the Tebow one... ugh. Now you're comparing a skill gap to diminshed play time?... just stop.

You fell into my trap...that "logic" was precisely the point. Its like the logic in considering a "healthy" Andrew Bynum.

[TMagic]

Sure its premature. But I don't give a damn.

Give him the opportunities/minutes Dwight gets, and I don't think its completely asinine to believe that Bynum could be every bit as good as Dwight when he's on the court.

I still hold that he gets severely underrated by most.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

Very premature

Like I said in the game thread, we've all seen this before. He has a stellar game and then disappears for 3 or 4 straight games.

Until I see an entire season where this guy is a consistent impact player, I'm not going to to think too highly of him. The mark of a great player is consistency. For now I think he is a nice complimentary player.

[Drewski]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

Sure its premature. But I don't give a damn.

Give him the opportunities/minutes Dwight gets, and I don't think its completely asinine to believe that Bynum could be every bit as good as Dwight when he's on the court.

I still hold that he gets severely underrated by most.

I had a post in this thread, and the Bynum vs Lopez thread, but decided against it. Wanted to see a few more games from Bynum but I'm with you entirely. Bynum looked great today, and in the pre-season. Super efficient, and still not getting the touches he deserves (18 FGA's not enough for someone shooting 72%. Albeit, Kobe and the guys did a great job feeding him regardless when the opportunities arose.).

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

I do agree that I hope that Drew is featured more. He needs more responsibility, which shouldn't be a problem this season. Pau/Kobe will get touches but everyone else are role players. So Andrew should get plenty of opportunities.

[TMagic]

I don't think its fair to expect consistency out of a player that has never been made a focal point on offense. Under Phil, he was the fourth option on the team.

Like I brought up before, when Pau went down, he was very consistent. We'll see how the rest of the year goes and if Brown sticks to what he said about involving Bynum more. So far, so good.

I'm hoping he can give the Lakers this type of production more consistently, as you mentioned. Especially with no Odom and Pau playing like a weenie.

[Drewski]

Re: What Is Your Opinion On A Healthy Andrew Bynum?

I do agree that I hope that Drew is featured more. He needs more responsibility, which shouldn't be a problem this season. Pau/Kobe will get touches but everyone else are role players. So Andrew should get plenty of opportunities.

I'm glad they gave him some opportunities, but I'm still seeing him with very deep established position in the post, a great passing lane, and guys not even looking to dump it down to him. At some point he needs to be highlighted to the extent he should be. I expect as the season matures, if he sustains this level of play, they'll begin to understand that Bynum is the key for any success they can hope for.

If Pau can get his game worked around a bit more to complement Bynum's post presence, the Lakers are very dangerous. Pau was wide open in the mid range area multiple times, and if Drew is dominating down low, that's a scary thought. Their spacing should only improve over time. Kobe Bryant is moving the ball better than I've ever seen him do, and he finally has someone who finishes strong in Drew.

With LO being gone, those big man minutes needed to go somewhere. An increase in Drew's minutes and responsibilities seems only natural.