Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

[AlexBrady]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Man, you can't use the ring argument when discussing greatness, it just doesn't work. I'd have John Stockton, Lenny Wilkens, or Pistol Pete run my offense over Derrick Fisher anyday of the week. Robert Horry has nothing on George Gervin -- he was ICE COLD! Lets not forget about Elgin Baylor -- man, Baylor is EASILY a top 10 player IN THE HISTORY of the NBA. And he doesn't have a ring or a MVP award.

I don't think Lebron deserves to be mentioned in the Top 5 players of all time right now but if he wins one ring by the time he hangs them up (and he produces at this rate) he'll probably be Top 3 of all time. Just my opinion, the guy can do it all. Score, pass, rebound, and defend -- that is just amazing to me.

I only assume your post is alluding to them having more rings than Lebron. If its not, my bad.

And I'll leave on this -- START GIVING BAYLOR SOME LOVE!!!!

I would agree that its about more than just copping a ring. However, there are reasons why alot of the so called 'greats' don't have one. John Stockton was an incredible passer and spot shooter, plus he was a master at changing speeds off his dribble and moving without the ball. He doesn't have a ring because Karl Malone was a choke artist. Its also tough to fault Wilkens for not winning a ring since he could do everything on the court (besides playing overwhelming defense).

Pete Maravich was a terrific shooter and scorer, but he was a loser. He never played defense and he totally monopolized the ball. The year before Maravich joined the club, the Hawks were an up and coming 48 win ballclub. With Maravich aboard the Hawks won 36 games the next year. Sure, he drew SRO crowds, but he was strictly a one man show.

Derek Fisher on his own isn't close to Maravich. But in context with the five man game he is the better player. Infinitely better position defense, ace spot shooting, and savvy passes to key team offense.

For sure, Gervin was a more versatile scorer than Robert Horry was. On his own he is better. But in a team setting, Horry is the pick. Big shot Rob simply made more transcendent plays in the clutch, big time treys and traffic rebounds were just business as usual.

Elgin Baylor was another one dimensional star, he could score in bunches and rule the boards. But his defense was abysmal and he only passed when he couldn't see the basket. After he was forced into retirement, the Lakers went on a tear that ended in a Title.

LeBron's greatness is mostly a function of his numbers. He actually can't defend all that great (certainly not at a DeBusschere or Rodman level).

[Rawdeal28]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

to me this entire thread is a lil disrespectful and flattering at the same time.

because Kobe is now headed into his 17th season and yet its still reasonably arguable that Kobe is a top five player.

At this point in his career Kobe should be above trival conversation of comparision to players currently in the league. they are like babies to him. he's chasing ghosts of players past.

lebron has played 9 long season and yet Kobe has still double his career in yrs and minutes played

i look at it like this, imo the only reason Kobe isnt still the best player in the league is father time. he still has the most complete skillset in the league today, he is just older and slower now. he completely revamped his entire game to account for this slippage in athleticism. is P4P the best post player in the nba today and has the best footwork in the post since maybe young Timmy or the Dream.

when he was in his prime (2 yrs of which the Lakers organization wasted) and when he was Durants age he was way more killa that Durant, Rose, or Lebron is now. ppl 4 get when Kobe was 22-23 he had already won 3 chips and was the closer for his teams. alot of those series he was the mvp of the real playoffs, the WCP

him and shaq both were avg 30pt/g for an entire playoff run. let me say that again, 30pts/g not being the 1st option. all b4 the age of 23.

but here's the real question. when all the guys you named are in their 17th season provided they make it that far will they still be as cold as Kobe or up for discussion as a top 5 player. when these guys athleticism starts to slip will they be Kobe or MJ or will they become TMac and V.Carters.

so disrespectful this thread is.

Amen bro.

he is still top 5 in my book.

[mlp111]

Mine
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Derrick rose
5. Kevin love ( guy has been beasting before the injury)

[Rancid Radio]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul

That's how my list shapes up. I think Paul can be replaced by Howard or Love maybe, but I don't see much arguments against Kobe or Dirk as top 5 players in the league right here and now.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul

That's how my list shapes up. I think Paul can be replaced by Howard or Love maybe, but I don't see much arguments against Kobe or Dirk as top 5 players in the league right here and now.

You must not post here much...

[Jasong7777]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Kobe
5. Dwight

[Rancid Radio]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

You must not post here much...

I meant valid arguments.

[Checmate101]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

damn, Melo fell of something terrible..think it's the Lala factor..but usually in these top 5's Melo name will come up

[K.So]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

damn, Melo fell of something terrible..think it's the Lala factor..but usually in these top 5's Melo name will come up

He's just a pure scorer; I think of him as Top 10 for sure though:

1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Kobe
4. Rose
5. Howard
6. Paul
7. Love
8. Westbrook
9. Carmelo

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

He's just a pure scorer; I think of him as Top 10 for sure though:

1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Kobe
4. Rose
5. Howard
6. Paul
7. Love
8. Westbrook
9. Carmelo

Russell Westbrook is better than Carmelo and Dirk?

[TajDeni]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

ppl sure are giving KD a major pass on the totality of his basketball game. he doesnt have to carry hardly any of the burdens other superstars have to carry for their teams.

KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this

but as usual its always the last man standing in the playoffs type of thing. last yr around this time ppl were saying Dirk was the best offensive player in the nba

also, on what grounds is wade better than kobe, seeing alot of that as i read through this thread. if wade loses his athleticism his career is basically over. he has no other foundation to fall back on.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

ppl sure are giving KD a major pass on the totality of his basketball game. he doesnt have to carry hardly any of the burdens other superstars have to carry for their teams.

KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this

but as usual its always the last man standing in the playoffs type of thing. last yr around this time ppl were saying Dirk was the best offensive player in the nba

also, on what grounds is wade better than kobe, seeing alot of that as i read through this thread. if wade loses his athleticism his career is basically over. he has no other foundation to fall back on.

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

[KSOR24]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

Ikr, take away Ray Allen's jump shot and how good is he then? But athleticism does have a big part to do with areas of a player's game. The league is being taken over by athletic freaks, that's why I respect Andre Miller or Jason Kidd, they're still getting it done despite their bodies being very worn down because their game doesn't rely on athleticism.

[TajDeni]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

i disagree, for 1 in this discussion we've already taken away his elite athleticism (age and knee) and now you wanna take away his jumpshot 2? ok, take it. he still has P4P the best post game in the league, to go along with unquestionably the best footwork in the entire league. he could avg around 18-20pts/g playing exclusively from the post alone. now back to his jumpshot, he's already lost his pinky on his shooting hand, not to mention the loss of ligaments in his wrist. and the man completely revamps his release on the fly? let me type that again, the man revamps what takes yrs of practice and muscle memory to perfect, on the fly! i mean what more do you want? who else in the league has this level of different fundamentals to fall back on? ya gotta be kiddin me!

at the end of the day heres what its about in the long run, whose game is built around the cake and whose game is built around the icing. clearly we know which group Kobi-Wan is in.

again like i stated previously, take away wade's athleticism and he has no other foundation with which to stand on..

ill let wade tell ya in his own words - paraphrasing, Kobe is great at every aspect of the game, he has what we called mastered the game. (skip to 4:07 mark)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

i disagree, for 1 in this discussion we've already taken away his elite athleticism (age and knee) and now you wanna take away his jumpshot 2? ok, take it. he still has P4P the best post game in the league, to go along with unquestionably the best footwork in the entire league. he could avg around 18-20pts/g playing exclusively from the post alone. now back to his jumpshot, he's already lost his pinky on his shooting hand, not to mention the loss of ligaments in his wrist. and the man completely revamps his release on the fly? let me type that again, the man revamps what takes yrs of practice and muscle memory to perfect, on the fly! i mean what more do you want? who else in the league has this level of different fundamentals to fall back on? ya gotta be kiddin me!

at the end of the day heres what its about in the long run, whose game is built around the cake and whose game is built around the icing. clearly we know which group Kobi-Wan is in.

again like i stated previously, take away wade's athleticism and he has no other foundation with which to stand on..

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol