NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

[King_B_Mack]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

I don't see where you have them at 80-85 MIL in salary next year if they retain Harden. I'm taking into account their raises, no doubt. I'm not discounting the value in Thabo/Maynor et all. But they'll be at a crossroad where it's like, ok, we can pay for Thabo/Maynor/Cook players, or we can keep our CORE player James Harden. At that point I think OKC will retain Harden and work around that. Point being is, they definitely have some fat to trim, and if they are the "great" front office many project them as, I expect them to figure this Harden thing out.

They can pay their guys, dabble gently into the Lux tax, and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, they have a ton of tradeable assets where they can scale back $ going out. They have an amnesty up their sleeve. They'll be receiving their revenue sharing. Just doesn't seem like the first conclusion about the Ibaka extension is Harden aint coming back. I think he'll be back, and I think OKC knows that too, or they wouldn't have inked Ibaka so quickly without weighing options longer.

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I think you're looking at strictly next year and he's talking about further down the line what their payroll would look like. So not just looking at the combined salaries of Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka for next season but what those combined numbers will be like two or three years from now. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like you two are discussing here.

[Drewski]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I think you're looking at strictly next year and he's talking about further down the line what their payroll would look like. So not just looking at the combined salaries of Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka for next season but what those combined numbers will be like two or three years from now. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like you two are discussing here.

Even long term, the Thunder's salary situation is palatable. Westbrook took less than MAX money in his extension. Ibaka's contract is actually pretty good, considering the market for big men, he definitely took less than he could have demanded in free agency. They have team options on guys like Lazar Hayward (2.1 mil 13/14, 31.1 mil 14/15), Cole Aldrich (3.2 mil 13/14, 4.4 mil 14/15), Reggie Jackson (1.3 13/14, 2.3 14/15, 3.4 15/16), and some smaller transactions they can cut loose in under 1 mil per with Thabeet and Hollis Thompson. Not to mention they just drafted Perry Jones. They have a ton of ticky tack money they can shuffle out of the books to make the Lux tax hit manageable.

If OKC doesn't find a way to retain Harden, I would be shocked. There really would only be two conclusions to come to: 1) Harden wants huge money and doesn't care if it's from OKC (who have the "team family" mentality, and guys taking pay cuts to stick with the team, and have improved every single year) or 2) The OKC FO doesn't believe their roster with Harden is worth marrying, and would rather tool around the other guys. Which is fine, but I don't feel like either of those two scenarios are based in reality from everything we've seen.

[b2tha2ndpwr]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

@ King_B_Mack you nailed it. As of right now (going into 2012-2013) OKC's at 70.

Ibaka goes from $2.2 in 2012-2013 to $12.5 the next. Harden (assuming they resign him) goes from $5.8 in 2012-2013 to around $11-14 million.

2013-2014
Durant 19
Westbrook 15
Ibaka 12
Harden 11-14
Perkins 8.5

Those 5 guys alone have them at 65-68 million. Drewski you think they can add 7 more players without hitting 80 million?

[Drewski]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

@ King_B_Mack you nailed it. As of right now (going into 2012-2013) OKC's at 70.

Ibaka goes from $2.2 in 2012-2013 to $12.5 the next. Harden (assuming they resign him) goes from $5.8 in 2012-2013 to around $11-14 million.

2013-2014
Durant 19
Westbrook 15
Ibaka 12
Harden 11-14
Perkins 8.5

Those 5 guys alone have them at 65-68 million. Drewski you think they can add 7 more players without hitting 80 million?

Yeah, I think they can. I don't expect them to have average to above average players in every slot of those 7, I don't think OKC needs to be a 12 player deep team, and I don't think they will be going forward. Like I said, fat will be cut, and alot of those 3 milli contracts they're handing out are going to evaporate. And I'm really not even focused on whether or not they can get under 80 mil, that isn't even my point.

Point being is it's perspective. They aren't going to be paying the lux tax on Harden, they'll be paying it out on the role players, which is where they are going to have to be picky about what they do about that going forward. They'll be non repeaters. The Lux line starts at $70 mil, and that line will adjust and raise going forward based on BRI

(In 2012-13 the tax level was determined by taking 53.51% of projected BRI (see question number 13), subtracting projected benefits, and dividing by the number of teams in the league).

And the BRI is more or less set to increase every year by a minimum of at least 4.5%, meaning the tax line is going to be raised

Starting in 2012-13 the salary cap is calculated based on projected amounts for Basketball Related Income (BRI) and benefits for the upcoming season. The projected BRI is a matter of negotiation between the league and players association. Each year the sides meet to try to agree on an amount. If they cannot agree before the end of the July Moratorium, they instead use:

• The set amount for national broadcast rights (which is determined in advance), plus
• The BRI for the previous season (other than national broadcast rights), increased by 4.5%.

Which means the luxury tax line will too raise up, making it a lesser hit for a team like OKC, who will be generating PLENTY of revenue between their attendance, and the fact that they should be generating extra $ because they -should- be playing deep into the playoffs over the next few years. Coupled with the fact that they aren't going to be going into repeater tax territory (the real scary facet), and the fact that league wide revenue sharing is kicking in, they should have the financing to do what they want in regards to keeping Harden and shaping the bench around a more stringent approach.

The fact that these are young talented players makes them tradeable assets. Worst case trade em out for cap relief if the lux tax is too much or it isn't working. And there's still am amnesty up their sleeve for Perk. But like many said, I'd wait to see how the Dwight in LA thing pans out before amnestying him.

[b2tha2ndpwr]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Yeah, I think they can. I don't expect them to have average to above average players in every slot of those 7, I don't think OKC needs to be a 12 player deep team, and I don't think they will be going forward. Like I said, fat will be cut, and alot of those 3 milli contracts they're handing out are going to evaporate. And I'm really not even focused on whether or not they can get under 80 mil, that isn't even my point.

Point being is it's perspective. They aren't going to be paying the lux tax on Harden, they'll be paying it out on the role players, which is where they are going to have to be picky about what they do about that going forward. They'll be non repeaters. The Lux line starts at $70 mil, and that line will adjust and raise going forward based on BRI


And the BRI is more or less set to increase every year by a minimum of at least 4.5%, meaning the tax line is going to be raised



Which means the luxury tax line will too raise up, making it a lesser hit for a team like OKC, who will be generating PLENTY of revenue between their attendance, and the fact that they should be generating extra $ because they -should- be playing deep into the playoffs over the next few years. Coupled with the fact that they aren't going to be going into repeater tax territory (the real scary facet), and the fact that league wide revenue sharing is kicking in, they should have the financing to do what they want in regards to keeping Harden and shaping the bench around a more stringent approach.

Oh I don't think you need 12 average to above average players either. I think 3 solid guys off the bench (whom we might differ on the cost of these players) and the rest veteran minimum/developmental players works.

I believe we understand each other's comments, and it'll be a fun wait and see with how OKC approaches having so many highly talented young players becoming veterans in line for raises and what they do with the rest of the roster.

[Drewski]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Oh I don't think you need 12 average to above average players either. I think 3 solid guys off the bench (whom we might differ on the cost of these players) and the rest veteran minimum/developmental players works.

I believe we understand each other's comments, and it'll be a fun wait and see with how OKC approaches having so many highly talented young players becoming veterans in line for raises and what they do with the rest of the roster.

Definitely, good convo. OKC got to spend some time without worrying about this type of stuff because their players were so talented and still on their rookie contracts. Now the money has to flow, and we'll see what they end up doing.

[Boltman]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

All that conversation, was basically my Sunday morning reading with coffee.

[TMagic]

With Big men like Javelle McGee & Dwight. Not to mention others. Having a decent big body is a necessity.

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Westbrook took less than MAX money in his extension.

No Westbrook is on the books for a max deal. He didn't opt into the super max option but he is on for the regular 5yr 80mil max.

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

As far as Harden goes I believe he is as good as gone unless he chooses to take a major pay cut. We all know that some team if not more than one is going to throw a max deal at him this summer. Also cause of a new rule in play even if OKC wanted to give Harden a max deal or match a max offer they can't. The rule is a team can only have two max deals on it's roster so that rules that part out instantly. Harden is going to have to choose between staying in OKC and losing a lot of money or taking the big deal elsewhere.

[Drewski]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

No Westbrook is on the books for a max deal. He didn't opt into the super max option but he is on for the regular 5yr 80mil max.

He's at 5 years, 78.6 million. And he sacrificed money he could have made as a free agent using bird rights and the max to net him a hefty amount more ($10 million dollars we'd all love to have).

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

He's at 5 years, 78.6 million. And he sacrificed money he could have made as a free agent using bird rights and the max to net him a hefty amount more ($10 million dollars we'd all love to have).

I am not talking about what he could have got if he waited and didn't sign the deal when he did. I am talking about the fact that he did sign for a max deal at the time of the extension. Regardless of if he took a chance on losing out on money in the offseason he did sign a max deal and it is on the books as a max deal.

[Drewski]

I am not talking about what he could have got if he waited and didn't sign the deal when he did. I am talking about the fact that he did sign for a max deal at the time of the extension. Regardless of if he took a chance on losing out on money in the offseason he did sign a max deal and it is on the books as a max deal.

Did he or did he not take less than the $10 million more he could have had in the off season?

Also, I'm unaware of the "2 Max" rule, and would love to read the wording on it. Curious rule.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Did he or did he not take less than the $10 million more he could have had in the off season?

Also, I'm unaware of the "2 Max" rule, and would love to read the wording on it. Curious rule.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

The only way he could have gotten more money in the off season was to qualify for the super max deal which he ended up qualifing for. That is the only way he could have gotten more money. The point I was making was yes he did sign a max deal at the time of the extension. He did not do what LeBron and Wade did. At the time he signed the deal he did not leave any money on the table. Now what he does get credit for is not accepting the kicker in the off season that would have made his deal the same super max deal Rose and Durant got.

As far as the rule thing goes my bad I got mixed up with the convo me and another guy was having here at the time of the new CBA. The rule I was drawing reference too is the one where each team can only extend one player for 5 years coming off his rookie deal. So the most OKC could sign Harden for is 4 years.

[23]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

As far as Harden goes I believe he is as good as gone unless he chooses to take a major pay cut. We all know that some team if not more than one is going to throw a max deal at him this summer. Also cause of a new rule in play even if OKC wanted to give Harden a max deal or match a max offer they can't. The rule is a team can only have two max deals on it's roster so that rules that part out instantly. Harden is going to have to choose between staying in OKC and losing a lot of money or taking the big deal elsewhere.

Im just saying, its weird that a team has issues keeping their core guys but other teams get to spend millions on all star/olympian starters

Just something not right about that.. this conversation is like bizarro world