NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

I think the biggest part guys are missing in here is that it is no longer a six million dollar difference. Houston is giving him the 5 year 80 million max deal. So that first reported six million dollar difference in now 26 million dollar difference. That is huge and one that I don't think many in his situation would turn down.

Forget about the playing a bigger role for a team part or the better chance at a ring part 26 million dollars is a lot to turn down. Let's also not forget that he won't have income taxes on that money as well. Lastly given the fact that he will only be 28 when this deal is done unless he suffers major injuries that should still give him plenty of years to sign on with someone else and chase a ring or two.

[ScoobySnax]

Yeah, I missed that part. For $26MM, I'd be out the door too. That's a lot to give up. I thought RFA's could only get 4 years though? Does the trade give Houston the ability to give him a 5th year?

So in essence, OKC was cash strapped because they weren't willing to go into luxury tax territory to keep him? Now that does make sense for both parties. I couldn't wrap my head around the earlier scenario.


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[videobastard]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Harden thinking its not a guarantee that the thunder get by the lakers and the heat to a win a championship. Why not get my money now and down the road i might be able to join another championship contender.

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Yeah, I missed that part. For $26MM, I'd be out the door too. That's a lot to give up. I thought RFA's could only get 4 years though? Does the trade give Houston the ability to give him a 5th year?

So in essence, OKC was cash strapped because they weren't willing to go into luxury tax territory to keep him? Now that does make sense for both parties. I couldn't wrap my head around the earlier scenario.


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They can get four but each team can assign one guy to be their 5 year max deal guy. OKC already used that for Westbrook.

OKC was going to go into the lux tax to sign him regardless. They most they could have offered was 4 year 60 million. They put 4 years and 54 on the table. That way they wouldn't have to commit him to Mac money but he would still be close to it. Harden wanted the max from OKC to stay and when Houston came in it just sweetened the pot for Harden cause it would get him the 5 year max instead of four.

OKC had no choice but to make a move cause they wasn't going any higher and it was clear Harden wanted max money.

[phenom1990]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

From http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58

Rookie scale contract extensions:


Rookie scale contracts may be extended for up to four seasons beyond the last option season in the contract, bringing the total contract length to five seasons. Teams are also allowed to select one player (called their "Designated Player") who can receive a five-year extension, bringing the total contract length to six seasons. A team can have at most one player on its roster whom they have designated for a longer extension, plus at most one player designated by another team whom they acquired in trade.


For example, the Oklahoma City Thunder extended Russell Westbrook's rookie scale contract in 2011 (with the extension taking effect in 2012-13). They selected Westbrook as their designated player and extended him through 2016-17 (five new years, six total). The Thunder therefore are not allowed to designate another player for a five-year extension (Kevin Durant signed his five-year extension under the 2005 CBA) until 2017, as long as Westbrook is on their roster. However, they can trade for one (and only one) player who was designated by another team.

[ScoobySnax]

@PrettyT11 Thanks for the clarification man.


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[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

I think Houston is taking one hell of a gamble paying Harden the max max lol. But in "the Association" if you aren't one of the league's glamour teams these are the chances you have to take to hit it big. Harden has what I call "true NBA potential" to be special for a long time. But so did Joe Johnson, Rashard Lewis, Rudy Gay and Eric Gordon. Two of those names are still in the air while the other two most certainly fell short of what was expected of them.

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

@PrettyT11 Thanks for the clarification man.


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No problem

[Fiasco West]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

OKC- horrible move IMO for the short term.

Harden was that glue guy. When things broke down, not only could he hit an outside shot but he could play Point and create his own shot and get to the line. KMart, Lamb, Sefalosha cannot do that. This is just gonna put more pressure on Durant and Bad Russ in that I shoot-you shoot offense they're running in OKC. If any thing they should've tried to get a pass first PG like Machado out of the deal.

Long term OKC will be fine. Lamb is like a TMac as far as his desire goes. He has all the tools but you question how bad does he want it. KMart...lol. Great outside shooter and that's it.

Houston. They don't care about winning. They just want to trick their fan base into thinking they're about that winning life so they get players to put butts in their seats. They'll challenge for the 8th seed if they're lucky. This makes them better in the short term and has potential to attract another FA 2 years from now.

Presti out thunk himself on this one.

And please stop with the "just $6M talk". No individual income tax in Texas. Harden just had a come up. He looks dumb but his agent is a beast.

So in order to 'care about winning' they would have to tank? Is that caring about winning now? They made a move that makes them better now and you say they are trying to trick their fans? Also winning does fill the stadium and if they make the 8th seed with a team as young as this then I don't see how that really is a problem.

Last year they were trying to make the playoffs with a buncha vets and players past 25 years old. Guys like Dalembert, Scola, Lowry, Camby, and Kevin Martin. This year they are trying to do so with a very young roster, I don't see how that is a bad thing.

Edit: Also I just want to add that it seems Morey really likes Harden. If you look at the numbers you can see why. He expects that he will only get better, only time will tell if he's right or not. The Alternative to getting Harden cheaper would be to wait, wait until the trade deadline where every other team would be offering this or that... wait until FA where every other team would court him. If they signed him then Lamb still wouldn't get minutes...so in the end all they lost is a toronto pick. The Dallas pick is trash until 2018. The Rockets can actually buy a pick in the mid 20s and have done so before if they want a mid draft pick that bad.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Sorry but Harden had a damn good HS and collegiate career.

Maybe its your opinion that he wont lead a team and that remains to be seen.

Nonetheless I was just curious to see what your standards of "dominating" were.




-Juke

He didn't dominate in any definition in high school nor college. From day 1 he's always been a complimentary type guy-- based off his demeanor, play style and skill set. Obviously it remains to be seen if he can take a team on his back in the pros, I'm simply stating that he has never shown this ability at the lower levels and based off his skills, he never will. I never said he wasn't a good high school or college player, but I've followed him closely since he's a local product here.

I think the biggest part guys are missing in here is that it is no longer a six million dollar difference. Houston is giving him the 5 year 80 million max deal. So that first reported six million dollar difference in now 26 million dollar difference. That is huge and one that I don't think many in his situation would turn down.

Forget about the playing a bigger role for a team part or the better chance at a ring part 26 million dollars is a lot to turn down. Let's also not forget that he won't have income taxes on that money as well. Lastly given the fact that he will only be 28 when this deal is done unless he suffers major injuries that should still give him plenty of years to sign on with someone else and chase a ring or two.

Like I said, it was that extra year. That extra year will definitely set him for life financially. Can't pass up an opportunity like that if someone is giving it to you.

[phenom1990]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Whether Harden is worth the max isn't the biggest issue. It's a team by team basis. All that matters for Houston is whether Harden contract prevents them from continuing to improve in the future. Which it doesn't because they can still offer another guy a max contract in the off season. This isn't like Atlanta deal with Joe Johnson where they had no flexibility to improve. It's also hard to determine what the state of the 2-guard position will be in 3 or 4 years because the young 2-guard crop seems thin.

[Fiasco West]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Whether Harden is worth the max isn't the biggest issue. It's a team by team basis. All that matters for Houston is whether Harden contract prevents them from continuing to improve in the future. Which it doesn't because they can still offer another guy a max contract in the off season. This isn't like Atlanta deal with Joe Johnson where they had no flexibility to improve. It's also hard to determine what the state of the 2-guard position will be in 3 or 4 years because the young 2-guard crop seems thin.

Pretty much.

The only thing they lost was a Toronto pick that was going to be a lottery pick until 2018. The Dallas pick is not even a lottery pick, it's a 21-30 pick.

I look at it like they replaced their young prospect in Lamb with Harden. Is Lamb going to be better than Harden? I think he could be the best SG in this past draft class but still not better than Harden is now.

[tehova]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

Its weird that he is judged based on the team he was traded to, as if he had a choice. If he was traded to a contender it appears no one would have a problem...despite it being the exact same scenario.

Now if the argument is he shouldnt sign an extension and wait till the offseason to proceed, then that i'll listen to.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

I just wanna say I love how in basically every huge trade there's always a draft pick thrown around that once belonged to Dallas.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

At the end of the day, Harden's ceiling is basically Joe Johnson with worse defense and less size.

Rockets fans are saying Martin doesn't give a damn on defense... he and Harden tied for being one of the worst isolation defenders in the league. Offensively, they both ranked among the best in the league in isolation situations and were tied in pick and roll efficiency (granted 33% of Harden's game comes from the pick and roll compared to just 12% of Martin's).

In my head, I just don't see a team built around Jeremy Lin, James Harden, and Omer Asik being able to compete. They're basically below average at every position and while Harden is probably a top 7 or 8 SG in the NBA, that's not enough to be a franchise guy.

You can say that he just hasn't had the opportunity to be THAT guy yet, but I feel like you can just watch these guys and see who has it in them and who doesn't. Harden just doesn't play like he has the ability to be THAT guy on a competitive team.