Top 5 at each position

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Well I wasn't really arguing if he was a top 5 Center or not, lol.

My point was that the Center position is weak and the drop off from Duhwight/Bynum as of right NOW is huge and that if Cousins is a Top 5 Center then that's not really saying much. Samething applies to Harden if people consider him a Top 5 SG, which I don't.

[DukeC]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Eh, I don't think it's that huge of a dropoff if any from Bynum to Cousins. At least from a talent perspective. That's where our differences of opinion lay I think.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Top 5 at each position

I do.

But then again, I don't think Cousins is the 3rd best Center in the league though.

[DukeC]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Meh. I guess you can make an argument for Gasol if he wasn't playing beside Randolph. I still think Cousins is better though from an offensive standpoint. Marc is much better defensively though so that might cancel each other out.

I'd consider it Marc 3A and Cousins 3B IMO.

[wwharton]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Hrm? Where in that did I insult Parker? I have nothing wrong with guys who put Tony Parker in their Top 5, because I also feel at his peak he's a Top 5 PG. Once his floater gets going he's next to impossible to stop given how quick he is and how easily he's able to get into the lane. However, my list goes Paul, Deron, Rose, Nash, Westbrook, simply because I feel like Westbrook can do what Parker does at a higher level.

As for Harden? I feel like if Ginobli is able to crack the Top 5 at SG then Harden should be getting equal consideration also. IMO, it's Kobe, Wade, Ellis, Joe Johnson, then either Ginobli, or Harden take that final spot.

Combo guards are an entirely different story I feel. Do we then just categorize them as simply "Guards" and put them in both lists?

As for the bad comp thing, I agree there aren't a lot of Centers you can just dump the ball to in the post and let them work. A lot of them are a bunch of stiffs. Cousins is definitely NOT one of those Centers though. Simply by way of his offense (Which is light years ahead of Dwight's, Gortat's, Marc's, and Bynum to an extent) he cracks the Top 5. And he's rebounding at a nice clip by averaging 11 a game. He's certainly talented enough to BE a Top 5 Center even with competition though, which is what I was arguing. Stats and footage of his game tend to back my opinion up favorably.

Didn't say you insulted Parker but it's a bad comparison. The PG position is loaded while the C position is kind of weak. So Parker not cracking the top 5 could make sense despite how good he is, while an average C could still be top 5 at his position. Not saying Cousins fits that criteria just that it's a bad comparison. The SG to C comparison is a better one.

Harden doesn't belong on the same level as Ginobli. Don't really know if more needs to be said. I haven't thought it through but I think there are others ahead of him as well. His regular season wasn't THAT great and his post season was worse than that. People are putting too much on his potential.

[DukeC]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Didn't say you insulted Parker but it's a bad comparison. The PG position is loaded while the C position is kind of weak. So Parker not cracking the top 5 could make sense despite how good he is, while an average C could still be top 5 at his position. Not saying Cousins fits that criteria just that it's a bad comparison. The SG to C comparison is a better one.

Harden doesn't belong on the same level as Ginobli. Don't really know if more needs to be said. I haven't thought it through but I think there are others ahead of him as well. His regular season wasn't THAT great and his post season was worse than that. People are putting too much on his potential.

I get what you're saying. My bad on the bad comparison PG wise.

Eh. I think Marc is an average center. But, I've watched games where Cousins is literally unstoppable and grabbing every single rebound in existence.

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Now, I may be biased since I'm a Kings fans...but the only Centers in the NBA I think can dominate the way Cousins does is Bynum and Howard. Does he do it on a consistent basis? No, but that's partly because it's only his second year and partly because he commits 4 fouls a game. Those were all this year by the way.

My bad on the Ginobli comparison part. I was only looking at it from a 6th man POV. There was serious debate as to who was the 2nd best shooting guard during his prime between him and D-Wade. I just feel like Ginobli isn't durable enough anymore and that's where Harden gains ground on him so to speak. But yeah, I'm probably giving too much credit to Harden simply because I like his game.

[Rule of Two]

Re: Top 5 at each position

What makes DeMarcus Cousins' game even more impressive is the fact he doesn't play above the rim. Still, he's almost a 20/10 guy night in and night out. Hopefully he can mature and fulfil his potential.

[wwharton]

Re: Top 5 at each position

I get what you're saying. My bad on the bad comparison PG wise.

Eh. I think Marc is an average center. But, I've watched games where Cousins is literally unstoppable and grabbing every single rebound in existence.

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Now, I may be biased since I'm a Kings fans...but the only Centers in the NBA I think can dominate the way Cousins does is Bynum and Howard. Does he do it on a consistent basis? No, but that's partly because it's only his second year and partly because he commits 4 fouls a game. Those were all this year by the way.

My bad on the Ginobli comparison part. I was only looking at it from a 6th man POV. There was serious debate as to who was the 2nd best shooting guard during his prime between him and D-Wade. I just feel like Ginobli isn't durable enough anymore and that's where Harden gains ground on him so to speak. But yeah, I'm probably giving too much credit to Harden simply because I like his game.

I don't put much weight in potential when talking about a top (insert #) right now, so I would have to take his inconsistency and fouling issues into account. Still not sure I wouldn't keep him at 3 though. I'd have to look into it more so I'm not really arguing against cousins. It was really the Parker and Harden comments that caught my eye.

Ginobli's injury issues could be an issue with his placement, I could see that. But whether it's Ginobli or someone else, Harden doesn't deserve this much recognition imo. He still needs to prove to me he's not just Ben Gordon. If Gordon's entire career was in a controlled roll like Harden's has been, is there really much of a difference? It may be a similar case of there just not being that many SGs worth mentioning at all so his name is up there by default but that's hard for me to believe.

In your other post you touched on the combo guards. I think you just have to throw them on a list... or both guard lists. That would make more sense than leaving them off both lists completely. Again, don't have any names I'm talking about right now. Just a feeling that some aren't considered bc they don't have a real position (even though I'd put Harden in that category and he is getting love).

[Riddler]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Can you name me one thing KD does better than Melo?

I'm not seriously having this conversation. Durant is the best player in the league not named LeBron, and he sure as hell is better than Melo. End of story.

[ehh]

Re: Top 5 at each position

Every single list in this thread has Love as the best PF in the NBA. Just crazy that we've come to that.

[702]

Re: Top 5 at each position

PF seems to be saturated with a lot of very good and no great players. Think he is just winning out because he's the best at one singular thing. I'd say I would take Gasol over him in all likelihood myself, but then again..... Just no one stands out. I'd like to even say Aldridge is better but I just don't know him well enough to say. Think Love's skillset would fit with basically any (good) team in the league. It's so strange, I don't even think that well of him (because of the lack of defensive ability, which I feel is huge for a big man) but I can't say I think anyone is better.

Very confusing.

The Joe Johnson of positions.

[ojandpizza]

My List:
PG- Deron, Rondo, CP3, Westbrook, Rose
SG- Kobe, Wade, Johnson, Gordon, Manu
SF- Bron, Durant, Melo, Iggy, Gay
PF- Love, Aldridge, Dirk, Gasol, Blake
C- Dwight, Bynum, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, Gasol

[DIESEL]

Re: Top 5 at each position

The funny thing is the Kings lost every one of those games Boogie "dominated".

Now I don't say that to bash Cousins. I actually think he's a pretty good player. I bring it up because I believe people constantly overrate players who put up good numbers on bad teams. (Oh, hi Kevin Love!)

The nature of the NBA regular season is that the majority of the games are going to be close. It's basically a glorified pickup game for 3 quarters. Somebody on each team is going to score 20+. Somebody'sgoing to get 10+ rebounds etc......In the 4th quarter the men separate from the boys, and winning players make winning plays. Some teams win a lot, some lose a lot.

I've seen Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, D-Wade, D-Rose, Dirk, Garnett, Durant, Melo, and all the true "stars" of the game make the playoffs surrounded by mediocre talent. I don't care how good your stats are. If you can't crack an 8 seed in the NBA I can't consider you one of the best at anything except collecting worthless stats.

End of rant. Let the Boogie Cousins debate continue.

[ojandpizza]

The funny thing is the Kings lost every one of those games Boogie "dominated".

Now I don't say that to bash Cousins. I actually think he's a pretty good player. I bring it up because I believe people constantly overrate players who put up good numbers on bad teams. (Oh, hi Kevin Love!)

The nature of the NBA regular season is that the majority of the games are going to be close. It's basically a glorified pickup game for 3 quarters. Somebody on each team is going to score 20+. Somebody'sgoing to get 10+ rebounds etc......In the 4th quarter the men separate from the boys, and winning players make winning plays. Some teams win a lot, some lose a lot.

I've seen Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, D-Wade, D-Rose, Dirk, Garnett, Durant, Melo, and all the true "stars" of the game make the playoffs surrounded by mediocre talent. I don't care how good your stats are. If you can't crack an 8 seed in the NBA I can't consider you one of the best at anything except collecting worthless stats.

End of rant. Let the Boogie Cousins debate continue.

I'm kinda at an agree/disagree stand point on your argument.

First I agree because I think you should be able to make an 8 seed if you want to be considered a star and you do need to win games and lead your team..

However, I disagree that you think putting up good numbers on bad teams makes you overrated. Kevin Loves is not overrated. It's not easy to put up good numbers when you're on a bad team, reason is because every team you play is keyed on stopping you.. Every team T-Wolves play teams gameplan is to stop Love and he's still a monster.. So you can't undervalue great stats when you're the only star on your team and other teams are going for your head everynight.. Also, not to take anything away from Kobe, he's great, but you included his name with those other guys like Bron, Garnett, Wade who carried teams full of mediocre talent levels.. Kobe hasn't done that lol the only time he's had a team with as low of talent around him as those guys he didn't even make the playoffs. And every ring he has one he has had the best supporting cast in the league, don't get me wrong he's a great individual talent, but he never makes his teammates better and never wins without multiple superstars.. And not to mention the greatest coach of all time..

[StraightBaylien]

Re: Top 5 at each position

In no order

PG
Rajon Rondo
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Steve Nash
Deron Williams

SG
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Manu Ginobili
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis

SF
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Durant
Paul Pierce
Gerald Wallace

PF
Kevin Love
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Zach Randolph
Kevin Garnett

C
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol
Tyson Chandler
Tim Duncan