Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

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  • RedSceptile
    MVP
    • Jun 2011
    • 3680

    #31
    Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

    You're just in high school. The media trains you kids to believe guys like Carmelo Anthony (easily one of the most overrated players ever when every advanced statistic pretty much has him at a mediocre at best player) who contributes only one end of the court (compound that with being incredibly inefficient).

    Defense wins championships for a reason. If offense were as important as you made it out to be George Gervin and other high scorers wouldn't be championshipless.

    I would take a prime Shane Battier over J.R. Smith any day of the week and I'm positive everyone else here would too.

    Comment

    • wang_chi7
      Rookie
      • Sep 2004
      • 217

      #32
      Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

      Originally posted by TheMan16
      You really don't think it's easier to coach a player to be a better defender than it is to be a better offensive player? Being a better defender just takes heart and discipline like you all have stated.

      Your not going to see Reggie Evans become Kevin Love on the offensive end within a summer. But you could see Carmelo Anthony become a Ron Artest-like (circa 2004) defender within a few practices.
      If its that easy, then why haven't all NBA players become elite defenders? It only takes a few coaching sessions after all...

      Comment

      • RedSceptile
        MVP
        • Jun 2011
        • 3680

        #33
        Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

        Originally posted by wang_chi7
        If its that easy, then why haven't all NBA players become elite defenders? It only takes a few coaching sessions after all...
        Obviously the coaches don't know how to roster edit that well!

        Comment

        • OSUFan_88
          Outback Jesus
          • Jul 2004
          • 25642

          #34
          Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

          This guy just said that Carmelo could be a Ron Artest like defender in a "few practices"?!?!

          The hell?
          Too Old To Game Club

          Urban Meyer is lol.

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #35
            Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

            Originally posted by TheMan16
            I knew i was going to take heat for this, and i understand. You guys are trained by the media and these analyst to praise guys like Shane Battier.

            Doc Rivers turned Paul Pierce into a solid defender. Carmelo Anthony isn't terrible. He's just lazy as hell, and i believe Mike Woodson is going to teach J.R. and Carmelo to become better defenders. I do play ball in real life. High school team is ranked top 10 in Long Island.

            Okay maybe College Basketball, and definitely High school basketball are better examples. Scorers are more valued than defenders. These are bold statement that no one wants to admit to.
            I've coached high school basketball for 15 years and other levels for even longer. Sounds like your coach has you brain washed more than the media has ALL OF US brain washed.

            You are correct that theoretically you can teach someone to be a decent defender quicker than teaching them to be a decent scorer. The simplicity of being an elite defender, even on the high school level, is where your argument loses all merit. And the actuality that there is a limited number of elite defenders on both the college and professional level (despite the ability that most athletes on this level could work to get there) should also tell you that no one is teaching Melo, Smith or anyone else you want to name how to get there in a couple of coaching sessions. They've put their long hours in on the other side of the ball and are getting paid handsomely for it. I don't think you understand the work IN GAME it takes to be an elite defender... let alone learning how to before even getting to that point.

            Comment

            • DieHardYankee26
              BING BONG
              • Feb 2008
              • 10178

              #36
              Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

              Originally posted by RedSceptile
              You're just in high school. The media trains you kids to believe guys like Carmelo Anthony (easily one of the most overrated players ever when every advanced statistic pretty much has him at a mediocre at best player) who contributes only one end of the court (compound that with being incredibly inefficient).

              Defense wins championships for a reason. If offense were as important as you made it out to be George Gervin and other high scorers wouldn't be championshipless.

              I would take a prime Shane Battier over J.R. Smith any day of the week and I'm positive everyone else here would too.
              I actually agree with the general premise of this post (defense being more valuable than offense) but I don't know if I agree with the post itself.

              If advanced statistics say Melo is a mediocre at best player, that's more of an indictment on advanced statistics than anything to me. I'm a Knicks fan so ignore me if I sound biased.

              And that's not fair what you said about George Gervin. Battier just won his first ring. Ron Ron didn't get one until a couple years ago. Dwight, by far the most valuable defensive player in the league, has no rings. KG only has a ring from his first year in Boston, didn't come close as one of the most dominant defensive players in the league for years in Minnie. Camby's got none. Mutombo's got none. Defensive players aren't any more likely to win championships than scorers, it's about the team around them.
              Originally posted by G Perico
              If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
              I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
              In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
              The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

              Comment

              • slowdifference
                Pro
                • May 2012
                • 518

                #37
                Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                Originally posted by RedSceptile
                You're just in high school. The media trains you kids to believe guys like Carmelo Anthony (easily one of the most overrated players ever when every advanced statistic pretty much has him at a mediocre at best player) who contributes only one end of the court (compound that with being incredibly inefficient).

                Defense wins championships for a reason. If offense were as important as you made it out to be George Gervin and other high scorers wouldn't be championshipless.

                I would take a prime Shane Battier over J.R. Smith any day of the week and I'm positive everyone else here would too.
                Advanced stats also show Carmelo is a top 3 clutch player in the league. In this day in age I would rather great team d then a few really good individuals.
                Am I trolling? Am I serious? Did Dennis Green and the Cardinals really "let them off the hook"? What about the children? Find out next week

                Comment

                • TheMan16
                  Rookie
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 188

                  #38
                  Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                  Originally posted by slowdifference
                  Advanced stats also show Carmelo is a top 3 clutch player in the league. In this day in age I would rather great team d then a few really good individuals.
                  THANK YOU !!!!! I've been trying to say that the whole thread !!

                  Comment

                  • NYJets
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 18637

                    #39
                    Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                    Originally posted by slowdifference
                    In this day in age I would rather great team d then a few really good individuals.

                    Obviously. But having an elite defender(s) makes that easier to do.

                    This is a weird discussion.
                    Originally posted by Jay Bilas
                    The question isn't whether UConn belongs with the elites, but over the last 20 years, whether the rest of the college basketball elite belongs with UConn

                    Comment

                    • Pitfighter87
                      Pro
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 803

                      #40
                      Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                      Originally posted by TheMan16
                      I AM NOT CRAZY !!!!! If I was a GM i would not throw more than 5 mil to an above average defender. History has told us scorers get paid
                      Well that "Carmelo can be ron artest defensively in a few practices" sure doesnt help.

                      Defensive stoppers are worth every penny.More so to me then other roles weather it be three point marksman or rebounder.There's nothin better then haven a guy on your team like a Tony Allen or Shane Battier that you can throw on the best offensive players every night.

                      Edit: And this doesnt go for college either.My Wildcats and Anthony Davis beg to differ.
                      Last edited by Pitfighter87; 09-29-2012, 12:44 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Streaky McFloorburn
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2012
                        • 279

                        #41
                        Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                        The last time the NBA's leading scorer won a championship was Shaq in '99-00.
                        The NBA player with the best DRtg has won 4 championships since then (the last time was '07-'08).

                        It's not exactly scientific, but a heckuva lot more so than "scorers get paid".
                        "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism, by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment

                        • volstopfan14
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 2307

                          #42
                          Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                          Originally posted by TheMan16
                          I will throw 20 million at a Andrea Bargani before i throw 15 million to Tyson Chandler.
                          Seriously? Did you not watch how the Knicks vastly improved their defense when they added Chandler? And when has Bargnani won anything? Any NBA GM/Coach would take an elite defender in Chandler over an overrated scorer in Bargnani.
                          Tennessee Volunteers
                          Charlotte Hornets

                          Comment

                          • TheMan16
                            Rookie
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 188

                            #43
                            Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                            Ok guys lets build a team around Chuck Hayes, and not Carmelo Anthony guys...

                            Comment

                            • RedSceptile
                              MVP
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 3680

                              #44
                              Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                              Originally posted by TheMan16
                              Ok guys lets build a team around Chuck Hayes, and not Carmelo Anthony guys...
                              Prime Carmelo Anthony or prime Ron Artest. Even with his crazy antics that Pacers squad that got dismantled because of the brawl was legit. Melo has only made it out of the 1st round like once?

                              Lot of good his obvious offensive acumen has done for him in his career right?

                              Comment

                              • The15thunter
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 1639

                                #45
                                Re: Players That Are Paid For Playing Defense

                                Originally posted by TheMan16
                                Ok guys lets build a team around Chuck Hayes, and not Carmelo Anthony guys...
                                you're over-exaggerating the point we're making. we are saying you are severely mistaken about the value of good defenders, while overrating the importance of good offensive players who don't compete defensively.
                                xbox gt - bmorerep87

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