Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

[phenom1990]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

But look at them now? Haven't they all (except for the Wizards...who are not a traditional large market team in terms of lifestyle. I would switch them with Miami) acquired big name FA's and talent despite being terrible in the front office for years and years.

That's the problem.

The margin of error for small market teams are razor thin while large market teams repeatedly can make the same mistakes but still get players and agents colluding to want to play there. When Cleveland, Orlando, or New Orleans makes a front office mistake, it gives their stars excuses to jump ship. When the Knicks, Nets, and Lakers make a front office mistake they seem to target a big name FA and leverage small market teams to accept 30 cents on the dollar for them.

I would argue those team have just made better decisions. The Clippers got the 1st pick and took Griffin, so it started building from there. Same thing with the Bulls and the Nets took young players and picks they had to trade for Deron Williams and then went all in with the Joe Johnson trade.

The Lakers are just the Lakers. The Celtics only had a couple solid years between about 93 and 08. The Knicks were horrible for years and then gave Amare a contract that was a bit of gamble and used that momentum to get Melo. The guys they traded to Denver have helped Denver out in one way or another.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

But look at them now? Haven't they all (except for the Wizards...who are not a traditional large market team in terms of lifestyle. I would switch them with Miami) acquired big name FA's and talent despite being terrible in the front office for years and years.

That's the problem.

The margin of error for small market teams are razor thin while large market teams repeatedly can make the same mistakes but still get players and agents colluding to want to play there. When Cleveland, Orlando, or New Orleans makes a front office mistake, it gives their stars excuses to jump ship. When the Knicks, Nets, and Lakers make a front office mistake they seem to target a big name FA and leverage small market teams to accept 30 cents on the dollar for them.

No, they haven't. All those teams were built through the draft and trades.

And I don't even know where you're going with that point.

The Lakers and Clippers are elite teams.

The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls (without Rose, who was drafted) are pretty good teams but not title contenders.

And let's look at the flip side. Let's check out the worst teams in the NBA, according to ESPN's Power Rankings right now.

The Bobcats are terrible because they have had a front office who made terrible personnel decisions.

The Kings are down now, but it was just a few years ago that they went to the playoffs eight years in a row.

The Cavs were in the Finals just a couple years ago.

The Magic are a couple years removed from the Finals as well.

The Rockets are down because their best players were ravaged by injuries.

Detroit won a title recently and has been one of the most successful teams of the last 15 years.

Phoenix has only missed the playoffs three times since 1988 and have been to the Conference Finals five times, including a trip to the NBA Finals.

The Raptors have been consistently drafted high, and yet haven't been able to turn those picks into good players.

Those are the worst teams in the NBA, the ones you're calling "small market", who supposedly don't have a chance to succeed.

And yet all of them have either had success very recently and are simply rebuilding, or have made such poor personnel decisions that they have been treading water.

[pw_1016]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

I guess "large" is subjective. But it's significantly more room for error than lose and your out.

Baseball is different because out of all the major American leagues MLB is the least affected by superstars. Plus they don't have any cap what so ever. Can't really speak on hockey too much. However I'm almost certain the demographic in hockey is completely different than that of basketball.

As far as the best team always winning if you like it that's cool. However if we are talking about parity that's part of it. The NFL is considered the most balanced league because all it takes is for a team to get hot late season to have a legit chance. Every NFL season has a legit 10-14 teams(any given season) that could win the title. The NBA has about 5 max.

One point i was trying to make in this thread. thank you !

The same teams are horrible almost every year because their front offices consistently make terrible decisions.

And it's not like the big market teams are always succeeding.

There are six NBA teams in metropolitan areas of eight million people or greater: the Knicks, Nets, Lakers, Clippers, Bulls, and Wizards.

The Lakers are the only one of those six teams who have been consistently successful over the last decade and a half.

Not only haven't those other teams been successful, but they've usually been TERRIBLE.

No, they haven't. All those teams were built through the draft and trades.

And I don't even know where you're going with that point.

The Lakers and Clippers are elite teams.

The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls (without Rose, who was drafted) are pretty good teams but not title contenders.

And let's look at the flip side. Let's check out the worst teams in the NBA, according to ESPN's Power Rankings right now.

The Bobcats are terrible because they have had a front office who made terrible personnel decisions.

The Kings are down now, but it was just a few years ago that they went to the playoffs eight years in a row.

The Cavs were in the Finals just a couple years ago.

The Magic are a couple years removed from the Finals as well.

The Rockets are down because their best players were ravaged by injuries.

Detroit won a title recently and has been one of the most successful teams of the last 15 years.

Phoenix has only missed the playoffs three times since 1988 and have been to the Conference Finals five times, including a trip to the NBA Finals.

The Raptors have been consistently drafted high, and yet haven't been able to turn those picks into good players.

Those are the worst teams in the NBA, the ones you're calling "small market", who supposedly don't have a chance to succeed.

And yet all of them have either had success very recently and are simply rebuilding, or have made such poor personnel decisions that they have been treading water.

I should change the title of the thread to include that the same few teams every year are consistently (keyword) mentioned as contenders , regardless of market size.

There ....I just made some folks on here very happy.

Sidenote: TheLetterZ, your post must be sarcastic because I don't know of ANYONE that considers the Clippers to be elite . Plus, didn't the Nets just set the record for the most losses in the NBA two years ago when announcers joked that their games looked like practices because there were so few people in the stands? Back when J. Kidd was with the Nets (around the same time he was on the cover of NBA Live) was the last time they were consistently good (and when they had a young Richard Jefferson).

[phenom1990]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

I do not agree with the NFL has 10 to 14 teams that can win the Super Bowl in a given year. The AFC has been represented by 3 teams in the last 10 years in the Super Bowl. The NFL has 3 different franchises win 2 Super Bowls in the last decade. There are not 10 to 14 teams in the NFL that can win the Super Bowl in a given year. When you get to the playoffs you have maybe 3 or 4 from each conference that are capable.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Sidenote: TheLetterZ, your post must be sarcastic because I don't know of ANYONE that considers the Clippers to be elite . Plus, didn't the Nets just set the record for the most losses in the NBA two years ago when announcers joked that their games looked like practices because there were so few people in the stands? Back when J. Kidd was with the Nets (around the same time he was on the cover of NBA Live) was the last time they were consistently good (and when they had a young Richard Jefferson).

I wasn't being sarcastic, but I also don't consider the Clippers to be elite.

However, as I said in my post, I was using ESPN's Power Rankings for this year as a barometer, and the Clippers are ranked #5 there.

Okay, so what you're saying is that the same teams every year are championship contenders regardless of market size?

I don't think that's really true.

Let's look at the conference finals the last few years because that's a good test of what teams have been contenders.

2009: Cleveland, Orlando, the Lakers, and Denver.

2010: Boston, Orlando, the Lakers, and Phoenix

2011: Chicago, Miami, Oklahoma City, and Dallas

2012: Boston, Miami, San Antonio, and Oklahoma City

So in the last four years, the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Magic, and Thunder have each made it to the conference finals twice.

Of those teams only the Lakers, Heat, and Thunder are considered title contenders this year.

Of those teams, Cleveland, Orlando, Denver, Phoenix, Chicago, and Dallas -- six of the eleven teams, more than half -- aren't thought of as serious threats this year.

That seems like a decent amount of parity to me.

[iLLWiLL9105]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Parity Is non existent in the NBA and probably will always be because its the only league where stars can swingg the championship so drastically. And because stars want to play with other talented players parity will not be coming anytime soon. Market size doesn't matter. Stars will stay if they can win. Kevin Durant signed an extension. Tim Duncan spent his career in San An. Karl Malone spent his prime in UTAH! Players stay where they can win.

[Rocky]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

No, they haven't. All those teams were built through the draft and trades.

And I don't even know where you're going with that point.

The Lakers and Clippers are elite teams.

The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls (without Rose, who was drafted) are pretty good teams but not title contenders.

And let's look at the flip side. Let's check out the worst teams in the NBA, according to ESPN's Power Rankings right now.

The Bobcats are terrible because they have had a front office who made terrible personnel decisions.

The Kings are down now, but it was just a few years ago that they went to the playoffs eight years in a row.

The Cavs were in the Finals just a couple years ago.

The Magic are a couple years removed from the Finals as well.

The Rockets are down because their best players were ravaged by injuries.

Detroit won a title recently and has been one of the most successful teams of the last 15 years.

Phoenix has only missed the playoffs three times since 1988 and have been to the Conference Finals five times, including a trip to the NBA Finals.

The Raptors have been consistently drafted high, and yet haven't been able to turn those picks into good players.

Those are the worst teams in the NBA, the ones you're calling "small market", who supposedly don't have a chance to succeed.

And yet all of them have either had success very recently and are simply rebuilding, or have made such poor personnel decisions that they have been treading water.

Who are you referring to? You can't possibly argue that the Lakers, Heat, Nets, Knicks, or Clippers were built through the draft whatsoever. The only big market team you could make the case for being built through the draft is Chicago.

And really.....who cares if the Bobcats got to the eight seed 4 years ago? I'm talking about the current landscape of the NBA, where we have the majority of stars playing together for big market teams.

As far as OKC and San Antonio, their front offices are amazing but you can't ignore the fact that Spurs and Thunder were extremely fortunate that they landed two of the best players of their generations who were humble, quiet stars who didn't feel the need to collude. But if you don't get a Duncan or Durant, you have to be nearly flawless to build a contender even if you get a superstar.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

What do you want OP? You might as well just get used to it because it isn't changing any time soon. This isn't football or baseball where there's a million roster spots.

Major cities, warm cities will always get the first pick of free agents.

With that said, what about Memphis, Denver, Utah, Indiana, Atlanta, Phoenix, Minnesota, Houston, Portland, Orlando? Not that all those teams are elite today, but they certainly are competitive or have been recently [some even to recent conference championships). A few of those teams will be in the hunt this year and a lot of those teams have a bright future.

It's not anyone else's fault other than those small market teams who consistently draft terribly.

[pw_1016]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

I wasn't being sarcastic, but I also don't consider the Clippers to be elite.

However, as I said in my post, I was using ESPN's Power Rankings for this year as a barometer, and the Clippers are ranked #5 there.

Okay, so what you're saying is that the same teams every year are championship contenders regardless of market size?

I don't think that's really true.

Let's look at the conference finals the last few years because that's a good test of what teams have been contenders.

2009: Cleveland, Orlando, the Lakers, and Denver.

2010: Boston, Orlando, the Lakers, and Phoenix

2011: Chicago, Miami, Oklahoma City, and Dallas

2012: Boston, Miami, San Antonio, and Oklahoma City

So in the last four years, the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Magic, and Thunder have each made it to the conference finals twice.

Of those teams only the Lakers, Heat, and Thunder are considered title contenders this year.

Of those teams, Cleveland, Orlando, Denver, Phoenix, Chicago, and Dallas -- six of the eleven teams, more than half -- aren't thought of as serious threats this year.

That seems like a decent amount of parity to me.

5 of those teams you mentioned, you named them at least twice !! You proved my point that on a CONSISTENT basis, the same few teams are contenders every year . Throw in an occasional mention of phoenix and cleveland , or another random team then you have a variable in there.

What do you want OP? You might as well just get used to it because it isn't changing any time soon. This isn't football or baseball where there's a million roster spots.

Major cities, warm cities will always get the first pick of free agents.

With that said, what about Memphis, Denver, Utah, Indiana, Atlanta, Phoenix, Minnesota, Houston, Portland, Orlando? Not that all those teams are elite today, but they certainly are competitive or have been recently [some even to recent conference championships). A few of those teams will be in the hunt this year and a lot of those teams have a bright future.

It's not anyone else's fault other than those small market teams who consistently draft terribly.

Since I live in Indiana, I can speak on them. They have built that team thru great draft decisions thanks to Larry Bird. But you are right, all of those teams have been competitive. Its a shame that Utah, Houston, Portland, Orlando and Phoenix cannot seem to get back to that 90s form when they all had a franchise player and consistently went to conference finals.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

5 of those teams you mentioned, you named them at least twice !! You proved my point that on a CONSISTENT basis, the same few teams are contenders every year . Throw in an occasional mention of phoenix and cleveland , or another random team then you have a variable in there.






Since I live in Indiana, I can speak on them. They have built that team thru great draft decisions thanks to Larry Bird. But you are right, all of those teams have been competitive. Its a shame that Utah, Houston, Portland, Orlando and Phoenix cannot seem to get back to that 90s form when they all had a franchise player and consistently went to conference finals.

Let me put another way what I just said.

In the last five years alone, 12 different NBA teams have made it to at least one Conference Finals series.

In the last 15 years, the only NBA teams who haven't been to the Conference Finals are Hawks, Bobcats, Warriors, Clippers, Grizzlies, Hornets, Raptors, and Wizards.

22 of the 30 NBA teams have made it to a Conference Finals series in the last 15 years.

Let's compare that to the NFL, the league that supposedly has more parity than any other.

In the NFL, 13 of the 32 teams have made it to the Conference Championship game in the last five years. Basically the same number as the NBA's 12 of 30.

In the last 15 years, the Lions, Redskins, Cowboys, Texans, Bengals, Browns, Dolphins, Bills, and Chiefs have all failed to reach a single Conference Championship game.

In other words, nine NFL teams have failed to reach one conference championship in the last 15 years, while only eight NBA teams have failed to do so.

Is the parity between those two sports really that different at the top?

[BlueNGold]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

But look at them now? Haven't they all (except for the Wizards...who are not a traditional large market team in terms of lifestyle. I would switch them with Miami) acquired big name FA's and talent despite being terrible in the front office for years and years.

That's the problem.

The margin of error for small market teams are razor thin while large market teams repeatedly can make the same mistakes but still get players and agents colluding to want to play there. When Cleveland, Orlando, or New Orleans makes a front office mistake, it gives their stars excuses to jump ship. When the Knicks, Nets, and Lakers make a front office mistake they seem to target a big name FA and leverage small market teams to accept 30 cents on the dollar for them.

So it's a problem that all of the big market teams are finally good again? Where were all of these complaints when the Knicks were the laughing stock of the league or when the Bulls were completely irrelevant post-Jordan or when the Celtics were enduring the longest losing streak in NBA history?

Who are you referring to? You can't possibly argue that the Lakers, Heat, Nets, Knicks, or Clippers were built through the draft whatsoever. The only big market team you could make the case for being built through the draft is Chicago.

And really.....who cares if the Bobcats got to the eight seed 4 years ago? I'm talking about the current landscape of the NBA, where we have the majority of stars playing together for big market teams.

As far as OKC and San Antonio, their front offices are amazing but you can't ignore the fact that Spurs and Thunder were extremely fortunate that they landed two of the best players of their generations who were humble, quiet stars who didn't feel the need to collude. But if you don't get a Duncan or Durant, you have to be nearly flawless to build a contender even if you get a superstar.

How were the Knicks, Nets, and Clippers able to acquire Carmelo Anthony, Deron Williams and Chris Paul? Because they built their team up with valuable assets through the draft that they were able to flip for those players. If a team like the Bobcats had actually drafted wisely over their years and years of incompetence, they would have had a chance at those players as well, regardless of if they play in a small market.

[phenom1990]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Who are you referring to? You can't possibly argue that the Lakers, Heat, Nets, Knicks, or Clippers were built through the draft whatsoever. The only big market team you could make the case for being built through the draft is Chicago.

The Clippers drafted Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe. They used guys they drafted like Eric Gordon and Aminu to trade for Chris Paul. The Hornets did a good job in the trade.

The Nets drafted Derrick Favors and traded him in a package that resulted in Enes Kanter and another draft pick to Utah for Deron Williams. Utah did a good job in the trade.

The Knicks used guys they drafted like Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari to trade for Melo. I can't remember if Mosgov was a draft pick but they also traded Ray Felton, who the Nuggets later swung for Andre Miller. That's at least 4 rotation players that the Nuggets have used in their last 2 playoff appearances.

Well... the Heat only drafted Wade but they cleared a ton of cap space and pulled off of move that almost nobody thought they could do.

The Lakers drafted Kobe and Bynum. They used Bynum to get Howard. The Gasol trade, who knows if Memphis thought very highly of the rights to Marc Gasol at the time but it worked out for them.

[Rocky]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

How were the Knicks, Nets, and Clippers able to acquire Carmelo Anthony, Deron Williams and Chris Paul? Because they built their team up with valuable assets through the draft that they were able to flip for those players. If a team like the Bobcats had actually drafted wisely over their years and years of incompetence, they would have had a chance at those players as well, regardless of if they play in a small market.

C'mon. While what you said may have been true, any rational person would argue that they were able to acquire those players because those players used their free agency as leverage...forcing a trade to a preferred destination. I don't know how anybody can deny this.

It's just not logical. After years and years of losing, the Clippers or Nets now have an astute front office because they traded the house for stars who essentially pushed their way there.

Dwight Howard didn't make a list of Minnesota, Indiana, or Golden St., it was Brooklyn, LA, or Dallas. There are a plethora of teams with young players and picks, why is only the big market deals attractive?

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

C'mon. While what you said may have been true, any rational person would argue that they were able to acquire those players because those players used their free agency as leverage...forcing a trade to a preferred destination. I don't know how anybody can deny this.

It's just not logical. After years and years of losing, the Clippers or Nets now have an astute front office because they traded the house for stars who essentially pushed their way there.

Dwight Howard didn't make a list of Minnesota, Indiana, or Golden St., it was Brooklyn, LA, or Dallas. There are a plethora of teams with young players and picks, why is only the big market deals attractive?

Please. The first list Chris Paul put out was New York, Orlando, and Portland.

Dwight Howard narrowed his list to one team this summer, before he was traded. That team? The Brooklyn Nets

Chris Paul was considering Portland and Orlando, two teams who are among the NBA's worst right now.

Dwight Howard is smiling over in LA, despite saying just a few months ago that the only team he'd be happy with is Brooklyn.

Things change. Other teams have a shot often enough.

Yes, some teams have an advantage, but every sport is like that. It's basic human psychology and money.

When's the last time the Pittsburgh Pirates, Arizona Cardinals, or Columbus Blue Jackets signed a major free agent?

Guys want to play for teams they think they can win a title with. They've been trying to do that in every sport since the beginning of free agency 45 years ago.

Look at the freaking Heat. They went 15-67 in 2008. Two years later, they have LeBron and Bosh. How'd they pull that off? They were able to offer those guys money through smart personnel decisions for years, and someone to play with (Wade) whom they drafted.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Remind me when Chris Paul and Deron Williams demanded to go to the Clippers and Nets......