Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

[Rocky]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Okay, I think I understand better now.

Still, I don't quite see eye to eye.

Let's use New York as an example again.

The Knicks got Stoudemire because they were the only team to offer him a max contract. They got Carmelo because he's from New York and he wanted to play with Stoudemire.

Deron Williams has specifically said he chose Brooklyn because he thought they gave him the best chance to win a title of the teams who offered him a contract.

That, to me, makes complete sense without even thinking about market sizes at all. It makes me say to myself, "Well, of course they chose those teams."

Do you disagree?

Yes. I feel like you are looking at things very illogically here. Would Deron Williams have signed with Portland, Sacramento, or Indiana? That's where I think the disconnect here is. With the exception of Paul (and its questionable if he was looking to only get traded to NYK), small market teams are almost never options. Is that a coicidence?

You still never answered my question. Why do so many superstars play in NY, LA, or Miami? Is that a coicidence?

[DukeC]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Yes. I feel like you are looking at things very illogically here. Would Deron Williams have signed with Portland, Sacramento, or Indiana? That's where I think the disconnect here is. With the exception of Paul (and its questionable if he was looking to only get traded to NYK), small market teams are almost never options. Is that a coicidence?

You still never answered my question. Why do so many superstars play in NY, LA, or Miami? Is that a coicidence?

This is where you're losing people at.

Before the Amare signing NO ONE WANTED TO PLAY IN NEW YORK (And no one of note played there since Ewing). They couldn't pay dudes enough to go play for that dysfunctional organization.

No one wanted to play in Miami either. Hell, no one wanted to play in Miami period. The only superstar they got (D-Wade) they drafted themselves.

It took 4-5 years before Wade could convince anyone else to come play with him once Shaq left. In that span of time they were abysmal (Aside from Wade playing like the best SG in the league when he wasn't injured...wait a minute...this sounds suspiciously exactly like Paul Pierce's circumstance...) and were damn near last in attendance.

The Lakers have always had superstars. That's just the way the organization is run. They have good management.

80% of the NBA does not have good management.

Edit: There have been plenty of superstars that have played for other teams. I'm not understanding what you're getting at.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Yes. I feel like you are looking at things very illogically here. Would Deron Williams have signed with Portland, Sacramento, or Indiana? That's where I think the disconnect here is. With the exception of Paul (and its questionable if he was looking to only get traded to NYK), small market teams are almost never options. Is that a coicidence?

You still never answered my question. Why do so many superstars play in NY, LA, or Miami? Is that a coicidence?

Large market teams for the most part do have an advantage as far as attracting superstar free agents. That will probably never change.

How much of an advantage does it really give these teams? IMO this advantage means they will always be competitive and more than likely be contenders or it will be easy for them to rebuild/reload right away. On the flip-side there are plenty of small market teams who will have no problems building their teams differently but will be just as competitive or better.

Who cares if Deron or Dwight don't want to go to Indiana? One team can only support so many superstars anyway. There are plenty of small market teams with more than two or more stars.

Once again, how big a market is Miami? How many superstars were clamoring to go there before Wade.

Outside of Los Angeles and New York, which other cities enjoy such advantages of being a "large market"? Are you going to act like superstars were jumping through hula hoops to sign with the Clippers? Are you going to act like stars were dying to sign with the Knicks before just recently? Of course location matters and yes, it does lend to advantages, but some of you give it way too much value in the grand scheme of things.

[Rocky]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

This is where you're losing people at.

Before the Amare signing NO ONE WANTED TO PLAY IN NEW YORK (And no one of note played there since Ewing). They couldn't pay dudes enough to go play for that dysfunctional organization.

No one wanted to play in Miami either. Hell, no one wanted to play in Miami period. The only superstar they got (D-Wade) they drafted themselves.

It took 4-5 years before Wade could convince anyone else to come play with him once Shaq left. In that span of time they were abysmal (Aside from Wade playing like the best SG in the league when he wasn't injured...wait a minute...this sounds suspiciously exactly like Paul Pierce's circumstance...) and were damn near last in attendance.

The Lakers have always had superstars. That's just the way the organization is run. They have good management.

80% of the NBA does not have good management.

You still didn't answer my question. I'm not talking about four or five years ago....I'm talking now.

Is it a coincidence that so many superstars are playing in NY, LA, and Miami?

[Rocky]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Large market teams for the most part do have an advantage as far as attracting superstar free agents. That will probably never change.

How much of an advantage does it really give these teams? IMO this advantage means they will always be competitive and more than likely be contenders or it will be easy for them to rebuild/reload right away. On the flip-side there are plenty of small market teams who will have no problems building their teams differently but will be just as competitive or better.

Who cares if Deron or Dwight don't want to go to Indiana? One team can only support so many superstars anyway. There are plenty of small market teams with more than two or more stars.

Once again, how big a market is Miami? How many superstars were clamoring to go there before Wade.

Outside of Los Angeles and New York, which other cities enjoy such advantages of being a "large market"? Are you going to act like superstars were jumping through hula hoops to sign with the Clippers? Are you going to act like stars were dying to sign with the Knicks before just recently? Of course location matters and yes, it does lend to advantages, but some of you give it way too much value in the grand scheme of things.

At least you admitted it. That's really all I was trying to get these guys to do. Now the extent may vary. When I see Melo try to force his way to NY or NJ, Dwight putting out a list of only Brooklyn, LA, or Dallas, or LBJ not even consider small market teams (with the exception of Cleveland), than I see it as a pretty big factor along with winning.

Maybe I am more sensitive to it because I grew up a Hornets fan. For years, I've witnessed "stars" try to use the market card against Charlotte to try to jack up their prices prior to FA. Fortunately we were smart and never overpaid marginal stars like Glen Rice, Eddie Jones, or Baron Davis, but it did prevent us from becoming a contender. And who can forgive the blatant hi-jacking that Zo tried to pull (even though it was Shinn's fault as well).

[DukeC]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

You still didn't answer my question. I'm not talking about four or five years ago....I'm talking now.

Is it a coincidence that so many superstars are playing in NY, LA, and Miami?

Now? Talking about NOW?

Well...D-Wade and Lebron are best friends and had been planning on playing together for quite some time. Bosh was an afterthought (though an important one).

Same situation for New York. Carmelo, CP3, and Amare had been planning on playing together. Melo inadvertently dashed all that (leaving them no good trade pieces in the process) and then the Hornets traded Chris Paul to the Clippers because the owners wanted no part of him going to the Lakers.

The Lakers managed to get Dwight Howard because the Orlando Magic organization if a bunch of ******* who refused to deal him to New Jersey only for New jersey to grow tired of the drama and swing for Joe Johnson thus ending any hope of getting Dwight because it was then financially impossible. Then, having waited too long they "settled" (ineptitude more likely) for dealing Dwight to the Lakers....for nothing.

We and many others have already went over this. The Spurs for the past decade haven't had any problems building around Tim Duncan and getting him 4 (Or is it 3?) championships. Good management. For 7 straight years the Detriot Pistons made it to the Eastern Conference Finals (before imploding). Good management. For years the Indiana Pacers were a great team. Unfortunate circumstances (The Malice at the Palace) out of their control set them back several years. Before that though? Good management.

You see where I'm going with this? Good management overcomes small market size 70% of the time. Bad management destroys teams regardless of market size 100% of the time.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

At least you admitted it. That's really all I was trying to get these guys to do. Now the extent may vary. When I see Melo try to force his way to NY or NJ, Dwight putting out a list of only Brooklyn, LA, or Dallas, or LBJ not even consider small market teams (with the exception of Cleveland), than I see it as a pretty big factor along with winning.

Maybe I am more sensitive to it because I grew up a Hornets fan. For years, I've witnessed "stars" try to use the market card against Charlotte to try to jack up their prices prior to FA. Fortunately we were smart and never overpaid marginal stars like Glen Rice, Eddie Jones, or Baron Davis, but it did prevent us from becoming a contender. And who can forgive the blatant hi-jacking that Zo tried to pull (even though it was Shinn's fault as well).

The one positive thing that we've seen of this generation of superstars is that they have all for the most part given their original teams a more than fair opportunity to surround them with ample talent to win a title before moving on to another organization.

Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett

I could go on, but you get the picture. All of those guys [with the exception of Dwight in his final year with Orlando] gave it their all before ultimately switching teams.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

The one positive thing that we've seen of this generation of superstars is that they have all for the most part given their original teams a more than fair opportunity to surround them with ample talent to win a title before moving on to another organization.

Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett

I could go on, but you get the picture. All of those guys [with the exception of Dwight in his final year with Orlando] gave it their all before ultimately switching teams.

Once again here lays the problem. Even if you do your due diligence and draft a superstar. If that superstar has an immediate impact on the team that team usually is too good to be able to land a running mate via the draft. And as it's been discussed because of the way the league is setup these lesser market teams can't sign or trade for the quality without overpaying them.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Once again here lays the problem. Even if you do your due diligence and draft a superstar. If that superstar has an immediate impact on the team that team usually is too good to be able to land a running mate via the draft. And as it's been discussed because of the way the league is setup these lesser market teams can't sign or trade for the quality without overpaying them.

There are a slew of small market teams who have turned this post upside down all throughout history.

Overpaying though? We're talking about the NBA right?

You make it seem as if it would take a small miracle for a small market team to field a contender. Sheesh.

[DukeC]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Once again here lays the problem. Even if you do your due diligence and draft a superstar. If that superstar has an immediate impact on the team that team usually is too good to be able to land a running mate via the draft. And as it's been discussed because of the way the league is setup these lesser market teams can't sign or trade for the quality without overpaying them.

Wait what?

Spurs have disproven this theory

What are the odds other NBA teams miss out on both Ginobli (57th pick) and Parker (28th Pick)?

They also drafted Louis Scola (55th pick), John Salmons (26th pick), Beno Udrih (28th pick) Goerge Hill (26th pick), Goran Dragic (45th pick), Dejuan Blair (37th pick).

All of these players has or is starting in the NBA right now. They all still hold roster spots and have played significant minutes.

Not a single one of those picks is anywhere close to the lottery.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

The one positive thing that we've seen of this generation of superstars is that they have all for the most part given their original teams a more than fair opportunity to surround them with ample talent to win a title before moving on to another organization.

Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett

I could go on, but you get the picture. All of those guys [with the exception of Dwight in his final year with Orlando] gave it their all before ultimately switching teams.

And all of them left a small market team (which couldn't lure big time FAs to their cities) for a big market team.

Y'all (not necesarily you) are trying hard but Rocky is #winning

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

And all of them left a small market team (which couldn't lure big time FAs to their cities) for a big market team.

Y'all (not necesarily you) are trying hard but Rocky is #winning

They also all left losing teams with no other stars for winning teams with other star players, so I guess that means we're #winning too.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Ehh, all I have to say is: Hard Cap. Lets make it fair. Spread the talent out instead of letting teams like NY go $60 million over the tax line without fear because they'd make that up in merchandise sales (exaggeration). San Antonio's salary this season is only $69 million this season. Thats just crazy to me.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a Hard Cap in place, which is like $83 or $85 Mil? Could be wrong.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Something has to be done to shift the power in the NBA

And all of them left a small market team (which couldn't lure big time FAs to their cities) for a big market team.

Y'all (not necesarily you) are trying hard but Rocky is #winning

Right, but that wasn't my point. My point was that all of them gave their hearts and souls to their original organizations, for a pretty good amount of years. That's all a city can ask for. It's up to management to supply the talent and coaching around the star.

Rocky is winning? Alright.