most well rounded player?

[ojandpizza]

Kobe has a well rounded offensive arsenal. But outside of that he isn't on par with most of the names mentioned here.. He's probably the next level below them IMO..

He's never been a great rebounder, or playmaker.. He's had decent assist numbers for a SG but from watching him play you can easily see the majority of those come from him getting double teamed, or back in his younger days dumping the ball to Shaq..

He just doesn't have the court vision these other guys had. And while in his prime he was very good at defending his man he hasn't always been the top tier team defensive player that some others mentioned were.. And early in his career and now as his is older his defense is at a much lower level than his prime was.

Like I said Kobe has a very well rounded offensive arsenal.. But in the long run all that does is help him create his own shot. Which turns out to be not so well rounded after all.

I also don't see the natural leadership from him you get from guys like Jordan, Magic, LeBron, etc... There is a big difference in being the primary scorer on a team full of great players than being a guy who makes the players around him great.

[Kashanova]

Re: most well rounded player?

Seems like it to me that people critically microanalyze him at a nauseating level. Score many points and not much else.. is a bit overstated considering he was the prime facilitator for the better part of 15+ seasons..

I dont think you can find that any sg's in the history of the game that have rebounding/steal/assisting numbers per game and total. That dwarf what Kobe has and continues to do.. keep in mind he is a shooting guard and contrary to popular belief people have shot more..

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Kobe has a well rounded Shot selection, there's not one look he doesn't like that's about it. He doesn't grab a lot of boards, he doesn't average a lot of assists. He's really just a great scorer and was a good defender in his prime.

As far as Well rounded players goes I'd have to go with Lebron, Magic, MJ. and Oscar Robertson these guys could do it all. Only three guys in the history of the league have average 29.5 PPG+, 7RPG+, and 8APG+ over the course of a season and those three names are MJ, Lebron, and Oscar. That's pretty well rounded

[MidRangeGame]

Re: most well rounded player?

Actuality is greater than perception.

[ojandpizza]

Actuality is greater than perception.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this... But, I'll explain a little more in depth why I don't have Kobe on par with the other guys...

When watching Kobe play, the guy takes so many shots that after the game you'll be like "wow Kobe had another big night".. Then you see the box scored and he had say 25... You watch LeBron play and you'll say "yeah he did pretty good I guess", then you see the box score and he's got 32.

LeBron is so efficient, Kobe hasn't ever had that effect. You can judge exactly how much impact Kobe had on a game by looking at his point total when the game is over.... Where a guy like LeBron can score 15 points and still be the most important player on the floor.. You say wow he had a rough night, and then you look closer and hes got a triple double and a handful of steals...Kobe has never been able to do that. Not consistently at least.

LeBron for example leads his team in points, rebounds, assists, near the top in FG%, 3pt %, steals, blocks... He does everything.. His impact on the game and what he brings night in and night out is far greater than being the top scorer for that game.

Kobe just doesn't bring that. LeBron does, Jordan did, Bird, Magic, etc..


Also referring to your previous post when you said Kobe has been the Lakers primary facilitator... No he has not. He's just led the team in assists because just can't flourish without the ball in his hand... He's never played on a team where his PG was the player who's been in control. Kobe has to and always had to have the ball.. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but that definitely doesn't make him "well rounded"..

[MidRangeGame]

Re: most well rounded player?

Also referring to your previous post when you said Kobe has been the Lakers primary facilitator... No he has not. He's just led the team in assists because just can't flourish without the ball in his hand... He's never played on a team where his PG was the player who's been in control. Kobe has to and always had to have the ball.

Im not sure you know what facilitator.. but ill move on. Lebron is more efficient for a number of reasons because he takes less jumpshots for starters....Takes Less 3's, he has floor spacers and has had them..throughout his career.(meaning shooters)..

For the last few years he happens to have a perimeter player in dwyane wade who can get his own shot and happens to be a top 10 player in this league.


And as far as your last statement on having the ball the whole time... hello.. Lebron is much more ball dominant that him..especially in the Cle days the pgs would dribble half way to half court and hed take over..


but im familiar with you.. ill leave it here.

[ojandpizza]

Im not sure you know what facilitator.. but ill move on. Lebron is more efficient for a number of reasons because he takes less jumpshots for starters....Takes Less 3's, he has floor spacers and has had them..throughout his career.(meaning shooters)..

For the last few years he happens to have a perimeter player in dwyane wade who can get his own shot and happens to be a top 10 player in this league.


And as far as your last statement on having the ball the whole time... hello.. Lebron is much more ball dominant that him..especially in the Cle days the pgs would dribble half way to half court and hed take over..


but im familiar with you.. ill leave it here.

There is a big difference in how the two players are ball dominant.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: most well rounded player?

Magic-Jordan- Lebron.

I think .

[DutchMastah7]

Re: most well rounded player?

MJ. For all the reasons others have already stated.

These kinds of players have always been my favorite guys to watch. I think I might be one of the only people to claim Andrei Kirilenko as a favorite player at some point. Guys that do everything are just awesome to watch.

[noah1212]

Re: most well rounded player?

MJ. For all the reasons others have already stated.

These kinds of players have always been my favorite guys to watch. I think I might be one of the only people to claim Andrei Kirilenko as a favorite player at some point. Guys that do everything are just awesome to watch.

they certainly are, but for me, i also enjoy watching guys like reggie miller, ray allen or rondo that excel at one thing.

[The15thunter]

Re: most well rounded player?

am i the only one who doesn't think magic should be in this conversation because he wasn't that good a shooter and didn't defend on a man to man level very well?

[ojandpizza]

am i the only one who doesn't think magic should be in this conversation because he wasn't that good a shooter and didn't defend on a man to man level very well?

I didn't put Magic in my top 3 that I listed for those very reasons... Also the fact that his team was built perfect for him to succeed. I'm not sure if he really would have excelled in another type of offense.. One that wasn't run and gun simply because he was limited offensively...

When the Lakers weren't running who did they go to? Not Magic, Kareem..

Just because you can play multiple positions doesn't mean your game is as complete as some of the other guys.

[d11king]

Re: most well rounded player?

I didn't put Magic in my top 3 that I listed for those very reasons... Also the fact that his team was built perfect for him to succeed. I'm not sure if he really would have excelled in another type of offense.. One that wasn't run and gun simply because he was limited offensively...

When the Lakers weren't running who did they go to? Not Magic, Kareem..

Just because you can play multiple positions doesn't mean your game is as complete as some of the other guys.

If Magic player anywhere else, he still would've had the same game. "Showtime" was existed because of Magic Johnson, because he was Showtime.

On another note, I wish I was older to be able to experience what Bird/Magic did for the NBA, and then what Jordan did to add to it. Sigh, I missed out on the Golden Age of Basketball. Stupid parents ha

[BringTheHeat]

Re: most well rounded player?

On second thought, Magic isn't even the most well rounded PG, so I'm going to throw Jason Kidd in this discussion. One of the best players on both sides of the ball, great shooter, great passer, and a great leader.

[ojandpizza]

If Magic player anywhere else, he still would've had the same game. "Showtime" was existed because of Magic Johnson, because he was Showtime.

On another note, I wish I was older to be able to experience what Bird/Magic did for the NBA, and then what Jordan did to add to it. Sigh, I missed out on the Golden Age of Basketball. Stupid parents ha

Idk man.. Magic was lucky enough to play with some great players who didn't mind sacrificing their games to be 3rd and 4th options..

Michael Cooper, Jamaal Wilkes, James Worthy, Byron Scott - these guys made Magics job MUCH easier than it could have been.. All those guys were capable 20+ PPG scorers had they not been 3rd and 4th options..

Having a successful fast break team isn't all about having a good passing PG.. You have to have guys who can run and score very well in transition. You also have to have the guys at the other end who you can count on to force turnovers and secure defensive rebounds.

[daveberg]

Re: most well rounded player?

Jordan.

I don't think I need to delve into an explanation for this, you all know the deal with that 'Air' guy.