Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

[Vni]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

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[st0rmb11]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

This is a really tough "debate."

Give me Kobe's career, for now.

If I want to choose either of them for their entire career, I have to take Kobe. Shooting guards just aren't supposed to maintain that level of play for that long. Jordan and Kobe are really the exceptions. Even if Wade wins more titles, Kobe has maintained a superior level of play for longer. Wade peaked for 3 or 4 years. Kobe has had an almost 15 year "prime".

If I'm picking one for their best season, at their peak, I want Wade. In 2009 he put up insane numbers, that compare to Jordan's better seasons.

Wade, in his prime, was a legit 2 way threat. He was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, who could get steals and block an insane amount of shots for a 6'4" guard. On the other end, he was an almost unstoppable scorer, who was also more than willing to pass and pile up assists. Kobe was a superior scorer in his prime, but I've always found his defense supremely overrated, and in his prime, he had no problem shooting over triple teams. So, if I'm a GM picking one player for one season, I take Wade. If I'm trying to start a franchise for years to come, give me Bryant.

If I'm a player, I probably take Wade. They both carried bad teams to the playoffs, and Wade just seems like he would have been more fun to play with and wouldn't berate you mercilessly.

Still, I can't look past Kobe's longevity. His "prime" has lasted longer than Wade's career will probably last.

[JJJones135]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

Kobe's sneakers > Wade's sneakers.

Therefore Kobe > Wade

It's all about the shoes.

But in all seriousness overall clearly Kobe is better based off how he adapted his game to his injury where as Dwayne wade didnt even come close to pulling that off.

[The15thunter]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

i think it's agreed that kobe is the 2nd best shooting guard of all-time. how that ranks him overall amongst the greatest of the great is up for debate, but the real debate is whether or not wade has surpassed jerry west.

[ojandpizza]

How can he "pass" someone who played 50 years ago though..

You can rank the players by personal opinion, or say you think player A is better than player B.. But how can you say "Wade just passed Jerry West"..

If Howard has an MVP season next year are we going to be able to say "Howard just passed Nate Thurmond".. It's just tough to try and say something like that. Especially in the Jerry West scenario considering he's the logo of the league.

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

^Couldn't agree more with oj.

We should just compare players to others of their generation and leave it at that. Anything else is a stretch full of "what-ifs."

[Mr.Kick24]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

Only Person comparable to Prime Kobe in his generation is Prime T-Mac. From 2000 to about 06-07 the two best players were Kobe and T-Mac, the only thing that held him back was that his defense was suspect at times but people tend to forget that a lot of the times your defense is predicated on how good your teammates are and he never played on a team with anything near a good defender until Artest came to Houston which is when his injuries took down his career. Offensively its a no contest between T-Mac/Kobe vs Wade. Defensively id just say that Wade is great at getting in passing lanes and blocking shots from the weak side which most perimeter players do but he is no way a shut-down one on one defender the way Kobe was.

[ojandpizza]

Well I don't think either of them were ever a shut down one-on-one defender but that's just me.

[st0rmb11]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

Only Person comparable to Prime Kobe in his generation is Prime T-Mac. From 2000 to about 06-07 the two best players were Kobe and T-Mac, the only thing that held him back was that his defense was suspect at times but people tend to forget that a lot of the times your defense is predicated on how good your teammates are and he never played on a team with anything near a good defender until Artest came to Houston which is when his injuries took down his career. Offensively its a no contest between T-Mac/Kobe vs Wade. Defensively id just say that Wade is great at getting in passing lanes and blocking shots from the weak side which most perimeter players do but he is no way a shut-down one on one defender the way Kobe was.

You just described Kobe's defense to a T. He's far from a "lock down" defender. He's a good on ball defender, but his defense is predicated on jumping passing lanes and sagging off of his man, to bait passers into throwing the ball.

You have to remember, Kobe has almost always had very solid interior defenders behind him. Shaq was blocking nearly 3 shots per game, and no telling how many he was altering, so Kobe could get away with gambling on passing lanes. Same goes for when he had Gasol and Bynum back there.

[Melbournelad]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

You just described Kobe's defense to a T. He's far from a "lock down" defender. He's a good on ball defender, but his defense is predicated on jumping passing lanes and sagging off of his man, to bait passers into throwing the ball.

You have to remember, Kobe has almost always had very solid interior defenders behind him. Shaq was blocking nearly 3 shots per game, and no telling how many he was altering, so Kobe could get away with gambling on passing lanes. Same goes for when he had Gasol and Bynum back there.

Bynum was injured half the season every year. It was Gasol and Odom behind him at the 4 and 5 much of the time. Also he was an elite on ball defender. Good is an understatement for prime Kobe. But yes you are correct he was pretty atrocious off ball.

[blackceasar]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

Kobe over Wade 10 times out of 10. Every championship Wade has won up to this point was because he had a teammate that was just as dominant if not more dominant of a player than he was. Got a ring with Shaq when Shaq was still the best big man in the league (granted right after that, Shaq fell off). His other Rings were with who is arguably the best player in the NBA now, Lebron.. for both of those other championships.

Kobe won with Shaq, then Kobe won without Shaq. Yes he had a good supporting cast but he actually won withouth having another player that would be considered his equal in talent.

As far as defense goes. I think Wade is a better off the ball. I think Kobe is a great "instinctive" defender.

[The15thunter]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

How can he "pass" someone who played 50 years ago though..

You can rank the players by personal opinion, or say you think player A is better than player B.. But how can you say "Wade just passed Jerry West"..

If Howard has an MVP season next year are we going to be able to say "Howard just passed Nate Thurmond".. It's just tough to try and say something like that. Especially in the Jerry West scenario considering he's the logo of the league.

It's not a magical moment where you have a tangible epiphany. Like all of these discussions, it's opinion based. My point is that I don't know that it's truly accepted that he is held in higher esteem in the tiering system when compared to West.

[ojandpizza]

It's not a magical moment where you have a tangible epiphany. Like all of these discussions, it's opinion based. My point is that I don't know that it's truly accepted that he is held in higher esteem in the tiering system when compared to West.

By a lot of people he is, there was a discussion in another thread here that basically turned into a discussion about shooting guards and where everybody ranks them.. It was before this past season started.. I actually didn't rank Wade in my top 5.. Some people seemed to be ok with it, lots of others thought I was overrating guys on my list that were ahead of him.

- when I looked online for other people lists I was surprised to see that many people had him towards the back of their top 10's.. I don't remember the sites I found but they were, for the most part, credible writers.. I was just shocked because most people I know have him top 5, and usually sitting at 3rd.

[The15thunter]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

By a lot of people he is, there was a discussion in another thread here that basically turned into a discussion about shooting guards and where everybody ranks them.. It was before this past season started.. I actually didn't rank Wade in my top 5.. Some people seemed to be ok with it, lots of others thought I was overrating guys on my list that were ahead of him.

- when I looked online for other people lists I was surprised to see that many people had him towards the back of their top 10's.. I don't remember the sites I found but they were, for the most part, credible writers.. I was just shocked because most people I know have him top 5, and usually sitting at 3rd.

that's my point, if he's not even universally in the top 5, i don't see how we can assume he's fighting for #2.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Dwyane Wade actually better than Kobe ?

I say Kobe. Longevity of his career is amazing. Imagine if T-Mac stayed healthy. I like Wade but he will slow down at 34 (like Kobe) and his playstyle might not translate well.

Wade should get a more consistent outside shot , post more , although I do think he's a better playmaker by far his crash and drive style won't hold against younger faster guards at 34.