Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

[OkayC]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

This is why a value Iverson so highly when comparing him to other shooting guards..

Iverson is probably the best scorer on anybody's SG list not named Michael Jordan. The guy could flat out score at will from anywhere on the court. Hell even Kobe didn't catch him on the all time scoring list until Iverson had been out of the league for 2 or 3 years and they came into the league at the same time. Scoring is the number one thing a shooting guard is supposed to do.

Iverson also did something nobody on the SG list has done (even MJ) and that is carry a HORRIBLE team all the way to the finals. He is the ultimate "put the team on your back" type of guy. Wade and Kobe have both struggled to win games when they weren't playing along other stars.

While you could argue someone like Wade is bigger and a better defender, you could also argue Iverson is a better ball handler, passer, shooter, and scorer..

Iverson plays with more heart than probably anybody on the SG list not named Jordan. He gave 110% every game with no regard to his body, and he wanted to win as bad as anybody. Regular season MVP, 4 scoring titles, and 2nd all time in playoff PPG behind Jordan..

Though i agree with alot of your points, the eastern conference was weak at that time, and the 6ers were able to take advantage of that. Plus when iverson got a little age, he dropped off. And for kobe not reaching iverson on the scoring list thing. Kobe played a different role on the lakers, then ai did on the 6ers. Kobe wasn't really the go to guy, until shaq left, while ai had to score at rediculous numbers just to keep the 76ers relevant. Not to mention ai was a chucker, who just got hot a little more often than most people(if that makes sense). And as someone said, what does scoring 28 a night matter if your matchup just dropped 30 on more efficient numbers than you. AI to me is top 10, but for a little different reasons. I do still see your point about him carrying this team to the finals, and i still think its a valid one though to a point.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Because guys routinely dropped 30 on Iverson right? He wasn't a horrible defender, this isn't Steve Nash we're talking.. And he often times switched to guard the opposing point guard anyways, which took away the mismatch he had trying to defend SGs.

But I still have him ranked 6th. And even if a guy on the other team did drop 30, Iverson was the type of guy, like Jordan and Kobe, to out play him and drop 40 and win the game.. That's just his competitive nature.

To AB- Iverson wasn't a poor outside shooter. But he also wasn't Ray Allen either. His problem was he took too many outside shots, and too many bad shots. But he was by no means a bad shooter. Most guys you named didn't even have a 3 point line..

I listed him as an elite scorer because like Jordan, Kobe, and Gervin he could literally score any way you wanted him to. When Iverson got hot it was game over.

[24]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

To further expand on what O.J said Iverson had no one else on his team who was a good scorer. Take the 2000 Sixers for an example, their second most reliable scoring option was Aaron Mckie. That's pretty damn terrible for a second option. While Iverson's outside shot selection was bad, you had to let him take some of those.

[Phreak50]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

So true. LOL those 76ers he dragged to the finals, my god. Most of them wouldn't make D League Teams.

Lots of critics are quick to point out his fg% and turnovers but they weren't that bad considering the lack of help he had. We've all seen what happens to players' stats when they have another superstar with them.

Plus, the big names AI had were all past their prime when they joined him (bar Melo in Denver).

AI top 5 for sure.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Iverson's defense was indeed horrible. He was 5-9 and 160 pounds so everyone in the league could post him or shoot over him. When I see a guy go for a steal and miss, which allows penetration and most likely a score, I give the bad mark to the gambler. Nash played better position defense than Iverson.

Iverson could score any way you wanted him to? The guy couldn't post up or catch and shoot off a patterned route.
Iverson could never initiate plays with a simple pass instead of his dribble. As consequence, it was impossible to run a five man offense with him in it.

Iverson's Philadelphia teams were horrible? Who can you surround Iverson with besides role players? Remember how Iverson looked playing with Carmelo Anthony? They worked together like two children in parallel play.

[Muzyk23]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

I would like to know what you think, because to me some things you say are questionable. Plus, you just indicated that nash is a better defender, completely ignoring the fact that sixers defense was based on gambles and aggresiveness. Iverson also led the league in steals, always top 3 in his years. You ignore a lot of points of view, always trying to discredit Iverson. RayAllen, Mitch Richmond - my god. Iverson on heart alone is before these guys.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

I would like to know what you think, because to me some things you say are questionable. Plus, you just indicated that nash is a better defender, completely ignoring the fact that sixers defense was based on gambles and aggresiveness. Iverson also led the league in steals, always top 3 in his years. You ignore a lot of points of view, always trying to discredit Iverson. RayAllen, Mitch Richmond - my god.

The Sixers defense was based on intense ball pressure, not reckless gambles. Nash was a poor straight up defender, but he didn't always compromise the team defense like Iverson did.

Steals are a poor indicator of defense and trying to steal the ball from an opposing point guard is one of the riskiest things you can do. The ideal situation is to make the opposing point guard turn his back to the offense. Dennis Johnson was the best ever at 'turning' his man. Johnson, maybe the finest defender ever at the point, averaged 1.3 steals for his career.

Ray Allen was among the finest shooters ever, ran excellent off ball patterns, and had a genius level IQ. Mitch Richmond? An all-around scoring expert.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Am I the only one who thinks all the marvel about AI taking the Sixers to the Finals in 2001 a little overblown? IIRC the East was pretty ****ing terrible in the early 2000's.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Am I the only one who thinks all the marvel about AI taking the Sixers to the Finals in 2001 a little overblown? IIRC the East was pretty ****ing terrible in the early 2000's.

True, but that doesn't make making the finals easy by no means. Vince didn't do it, T-Mac didn't do it, Ray Allen didn't do it.. He averaged 33 points 5 rebounds as 6 assists through the playoffs that season. Then dropped 48 points on the best team in the world in the finals.. I'm not one to marvel about only making the finals, it's really not that big of a deal if you don't win it all anyways. But he was just so damn good that year.

AB - Iverson used to score moving off ball all the time man. He was constantly moving. And of course he didn't post up, why would we suggest someone who's 6foot 160pounds to go and post up?

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Am I the only one who thinks all the marvel about AI taking the Sixers to the Finals in 2001 a little overblown? IIRC the East was pretty ****ing terrible in the early 2000's.

You pretty much surmised AI's entire career.

A little overblown.

AI's itchy trigger finger made him a flashy, but horribly inefficient scorer.

As for the guy who asked for my Top 5.

MJ
Kobe
Wade
West
Clyde

Those guys are EASILY better than AI. EASILY.

[Jukeman]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Top 5 easily.

[Dice]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Jason Kidd did it the next year, although none of these 3 carried the teams to a Championship since they didn't win it.

True. But I would still give the edge to that 2002 Nets team has having a better supporting cast than the 2001 Sixers or the 2007 Cavs. The Nets did have size, which is always a plus. They also had a young Richard Jefferson as well.

[KG]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Here is the thing that will always in my mind hold me back from saying Iverson with any All-Time great. His interview with David Aldridge is really telling. Iverson career could of been much better. We all know that. He will always be know in the streets though.

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That's the thing that will always bother me. He never worked on his game. Every year he though he was the best. And nothing had to improve on his end. It's another reason he flamed out so quick toward the back end of his career. Can anyone here imagine if Iverson got a legit trainer in his corner during the offseason? His career would of lasted a little long.

How much more do you expect from a 5'10 160 SG in the NBA? He could have Tim Grover as his personal guy and would have still broken down due to his frame and style of play. The guy played 13-14 years in this league at a very high level always exerting maximum effort and never shying away from contact.

The fact that he really fell off a cliff after he got a little age on him really knocks him down quite a bit in my book.

And other guys on that list not named MJ or Kobe didn't? At 31yrs of age AI - 31pts 7asts 4rebs 2stls Joe Dumars - 17/5/2/1 Vince - 21/6/5/1 Clyde - 19/6/5/1 Ginobli - 15/3/4/2 Reggie - 21/3/3

The Sixers defense was based on intense ball pressure, not reckless gambles. Nash was a poor straight up defender, but he didn't always compromise the team defense like Iverson did.

Steals are a poor indicator of defense and trying to steal the ball from an opposing point guard is one of the riskiest things you can do. The ideal situation is to make the opposing point guard turn his back to the offense. Dennis Johnson was the best ever at 'turning' his man. Johnson, maybe the finest defender ever at the point, averaged 1.3 steals for his career.

Ray Allen was among the finest shooters ever, ran excellent off ball patterns, and had a genius level IQ. Mitch Richmond? An all-around scoring expert.

The part that Nash didn't compromise their defense is some straight up BS. There is nothing more detrimental to a defense than penetration and Nash never had the lateral quickness on D to keep his man in front of him. Now, D'Antoni's system differed tactically from Larry Brown's but give me a guy who can stay in front of his man any day. I can live with a PG/SG posting up my smaller defender. I can't live with an opposing PG getting into the lane and dictating my defense. Edit: I'll be honest. I am a die-hard Gtown fan so my love for AI could be seen as homer'ism. However, I feel like my points are sound.

[OdensKneesOMG]

Re: Is Allen Iverson TOP 5 SG All-Time?

Iverson is a top 5 all time ball hog and permateenager, but not even close to a top 5 all time NBA shooting guard. Probably should have practiced more.

[ojandpizza]

Iverson is a top 5 all time ball hog and permateenager, but not even close to a top 5 all time NBA shooting guard. Probably should have practiced more.

Not exactly a ball hog when you consistently finish at the top of the assist list for shooting guards each season.. He's no more of a ball hog than any of the other great scorers were.

And idk why the practice thing is so overblown. Is it really a big deal to miss a few practices when you've technically been playing and practicing every single day for like 10 years? lol I know it was a big media thing and all, and his attitude didn't help it any... But in reality who cares. If it was anybody else we wouldn't even say anything about.