12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

Trey Burke is the real deal. Sounds crazy, but I see a lot of Chris Paul in him.

One of the few problems I've seen with him so far is he's trying too hard. He's taking contested shots. Once he figures out that he needs to pick his shots out a little better, he can be one of the better point guards in the league, in my opinion.

Does sound a little crazy. Chris Paul came into the league and was a clear star from day 1. He was dealing with Hurricane Katrina and the team was displaced for half a season, yet he led all rookies in virtually every category and was basically a unanimous Rookie of the Year.

I'm glad Burke looks solid but when I read Chris Paul next to his name I tend to be pessimistic. I've only seen highlights of Burke and he does seem to be a smooth operator even on the next level (I thought he was ultra savvy at Michigan). Even from his best highlights of the few games this year I don't know if I'd even get close to saying I see a lot of Chris Paul in him.

[da ThRONe]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

When your a team that has struggled over the last few years and are trying to take that next step from ground zero to being competitive, take all and any wins you can get regardless of who it is.

It's not a matter of "giving back wins", but when you are discussing whether or not a team is playoff worthy who you beat matter. Especially in the West with so many other quality teams.

[da ThRONe]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

Does sound a little crazy. Chris Paul came into the league and was a clear star from day 1. He was dealing with Hurricane Katrina and the team was displaced for half a season, yet he led all rookies in virtually every category and was basically a unanimous Rookie of the Year.

I'm glad Burke looks solid but when I read Chris Paul next to his name I tend to be pessimistic. I've only seen highlights of Burke and he does seem to be a smooth operator even on the next level (I thought he was ultra savvy at Michigan). Even from his best highlights of the few games this year I don't know if I'd even get close to saying I see a lot of Chris Paul in him.

Coming from someone who's watched Paul's from a true freshman at Wake to what he is now. I see a ton of things Burke does that warrants the comparsion to Paul.

I think you would see Burke posting better stats if he had a smarter coach. As much as I despised Bryon Scott as a coach he had enough since to realize the talent Paul had. Scott gave CP the ball and just let him run the offense. In Utah Ty Corbin insist on running much of the offense positions through Hayward. Paul never had to deal with that. The games where he just gave the ball over to Burke he started posting Paul rookie year type numbers. Now he trying to involve Hayward more Burke numbers started dipping. What might be even more impressive is that Burke seems to be able to still put up numbers in a system that doesn't feature him like it should based on what he's done as the majority ball handler so far.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

It's not a matter of "giving back wins", but when you are discussing whether or not a team is playoff worthy who you beat matter. Especially in the West with so many other quality teams.

Not when your a team that hasn't amounted to much lately.

If we were talking about a team with high expectations(read: Championship immediately)then I'd agree with you. But for a team that's just trying to get into the playoffs and then build off of that, who you beat doesn't necessarily matter as much.

[da ThRONe]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

Not yet, but next year I definitely think the Pelicans will be a 7th or 8th seed.

Also like has been mentioned, Anderson had been out. Davis is a budding All-Star and with Holiday/Gordon/Anderson, you can't go wrong. I think they need to find a way to get something of a glue type player for Evans. Probably an older veteran or two as well.

I don't like the team as currently constructed. IMO there's too much redundancy between Holiday, Gordon, and Evans. However I do think if we make a legit playoffs push it'll be next year.

[JazzMan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

Does sound a little crazy. Chris Paul came into the league and was a clear star from day 1. He was dealing with Hurricane Katrina and the team was displaced for half a season, yet he led all rookies in virtually every category and was basically a unanimous Rookie of the Year.

I'm glad Burke looks solid but when I read Chris Paul next to his name I tend to be pessimistic. I've only seen highlights of Burke and he does seem to be a smooth operator even on the next level (I thought he was ultra savvy at Michigan). Even from his best highlights of the few games this year I don't know if I'd even get close to saying I see a lot of Chris Paul in him.

Yeah, hopefully I'm not delusional.

In terms of size and athleticism, they're fairly similar. Burke has a slightly longer reach, Paul has a slightly higher vertical. Both recorded similar times at the Draft Combine in 3/4 sprint. Paul is a lot stronger coming out of college though. One thing Burke's gonna have to work on for sure.

Play-wise, Paul was dominant as a rookie. Burke is coming off a preseason thumb injury, so his touch is a bit off. Doesn't help that he just takes some flat-out bad shots sometimes. But he will learn.

Obviously, I don't think Burke will ever reach CP3's level. Paul is arguably a Top-5 player in the league. But I think he can have a pretty similar impact on this Jazz team that Paul had while he was in New Orleans.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

I don't like the team as currently constructed. IMO there's too much redundancy between Holiday, Gordon, and Evans. However I do think if we make a legit playoffs push it'll be next year.

I don't think Evans fits but at least you can still flip him. He still has value, maybe to some teams, a lot of value. I would explore that ASAP.

Other than that the way the team is constructed isn't so bad. Unless you don't like Gordon, Davis and Holiday are nice pieces for a foundation. Ryan Anderson is the ultimate complimentary player for any team. I personally would stick with Gordon but I do fear a Joe Johnson type regression in his near future. Paying a guy that much is never good.

Like I said, you really just need to add a few veterans and a productive glue type player.

[702]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

You're being way too rough on a team that; 1. Hasn't played or practiced together healthy for more than a week. 2. If it WERE healthy, has 2 big new additions, and a franchise player taking on a larger role.

The Pelicans are a very, very intriguing team.

Evans has embraced the 6th man role, which breaks up that "redundancy" a ton. Bench units with him and Anderson are very promising and have looked good offensively. Roberts/Morrow/Evans/Anderson/Davis or Smith is really, really hard to stop.

I think the redundancy argument is invalid to be honest. Holiday and Gordon are both good shooters, and with Evans being staggered in units where he is the main ball handler you don't have much of an issue with the three of them fighting over the ball. Between those three you will always have someone who can exploit a matchup and get into the lane with ease.

You put that with the fact your three best big men can all space the floor (Anderson Davis and Smith) and you're creating a dynamic offense. This is a team that can get into the paint, get to the line, and create open threes (while having good shooters to take those shots). They're 5th in offensive efficiency!

It's really not to be overstated this is a new team. Evans and Holiday haven't been able to be integrated with Anderson and Davis due to injuries. They basically threw Anderson in there as soon as he was healthy enough to play and there were immediate dividends with a bunch of guys who have never played together. My only real gripe in all of this is that Gordon hasn't looked great from what I've seen, but that is not a real concern at this point. Just good that he's healthy. If it persists halfway through the season then you have an issue.

They haven't been great defensively, but anyone can see the potential on that end with the three guards and Davis. This is a relatively young team with talented players across the board. Give them some time.

Hell, if they can stay at about .500 until Davis gets back, they're a real contender for a playoff spot. It'll take 46+ wins or so, but that's not out of the realm of possibility.

[JazzMan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

All I can say is that the Pels have their work cut out for them if they want to make the playoffs this year. The 8th seed right now is held by Golden State. Golden State! Many people were calling for them to be legitimate contenders this season.

I honestly don't think New Orleans can get in this year. Just too much talent in the West. Dallas, Minnesota, Memphis, and even the Lakers have a better shot in my opinion than the Pelicans.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

The west looks tough.. Golden State is going to move up to a higher seed once Iggy comes back. Memphis will get back into the top 8 once Gasol returns. I also think Dallas will retain a spot.

So basically Suns drop out, and also the Nuggets. Either way, the Pelicans look out of luck, especially with Davis getting hurt. The Lakers will be out of luck. The Wolves probably aren't quite ready yet either, but future looks good.

[702]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

Golden State will finish higher than 8th.

I'd say you can pencil in basically the same 6 most people did at the beginning of the season, subbing Portland for Memphis.

Oklahoma City
Clippers
San Antonio
Houston
Golden State
Portland

That leaves two spots for:

Minnesota (Best of the bunch, just injury concerns)
Dallas (Can't defend, and if Dirk were to miss any time they'd collapse)
Denver (Probably right behind Minnesota once Shaw realized they weren't the Pacers and stopped force feeding the post)
Lakers (Can't defend, simply not as good as the rest of these teams)
New Orleans (Injury worries, not playing up to potential defensively)
Memphis (Really bad offensively without Gasol, just ok with him since the Spurs made it clear you don't have to guard 2/5 of their starters.)

None of those teams has as much room for improvement as NO, and Dallas and LA are a key injury away from falling off. I wouldn't bet on the Pelicans to make the playoffs, but I wouldn't say it's insane if they did. These are all decent to good teams.

Basically to sum up my second part of this: Injuries happen, can't count out anyone. Especially a team that has had as many key injuries as NO and still ranks behind only Miami, Portland, San Antonio and Houston on offense.

Edit: Oh! Forgot Phoenix. But I think there is no way Bledsoe finishes the season if they're still competitive. "Sore Knee" or something.

[Vni]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

I hope Dallas makes it. They're just fun to watch.

Lakers man that seems like almost impossible right now. Too much to overcome.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

I believe they had a few games with Jrue, EG, Reke, Anderson, and Davis all on the floor late in games and it was a match up nightmare for the defenses. Whether the make the playoffs, who knows but I absolutely love the way the team is constructed especially if they can eventually find another big man.

[OkayC]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

As a laker fan, i could care less if lakers make playoffs this year. i kinda wanna see pelicans and timberwolves go over anybody else that in the race for 7 and 8.

[da ThRONe]

Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Games Discussion Thread

I believe they had a few games with Jrue, EG, Reke, Anderson, and Davis all on the floor late in games and it was a match up nightmare for the defenses. Whether the make the playoffs, who knows but I absolutely love the way the team is constructed especially if they can eventually find another big man.

Against who though? That matters.