How good is Kobe?

**DueceDiggla** · 06-09-2004, 02:58 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sarah said:
Well, I can't help but add something on this thread. One of the greatest clutch shooter nobody mention is Reggie Miller. Probably even better than MJ was.

On MJ's era, there was Barkley, Ewing, Olajuwon, David Robinson, Karl Malone and some more big guys on there prime that MJ overcome. Jordan probably played 10 to 15 of the NBA's 50 greatest players of all time on there prime. Jordan also was not considered the most dominant player until in the last 3 years of his career before he retired in 1998. He was considered great though before that because Jordan has yet to battle it out with the likes of Barkley, Ewing, Olajuwon, David Robinson, Grant Hill, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Malone, stockton and Reggie Miller on there prime. I failed to mention Mutombo, Drexler, Mark Price and some others I can't remember.

Jordan is (I think) on the top 5 of the NBA's greatest players of all time while Kobe is still working on the top 50. Jordan started on a lossing team and improve it before converting it into a playoff contender team and eventually became a Championship team. Kobe on the other hand started on a already playoff contender team. Kobe's story would have been different if he stayed on Charlotte and improve the team on his own skills. But as long as he is hanging around big Shaq Daddy, he will always have that sidekick tag.

Also, to be considered great has nothing to do with how many championship rings you have in your hands, but rather how you earn your place in the history of the sport. Reggie Miller (for example) has no champioship ring on his hands, but everyone respects him as one of the best players of NBA's history.

Now if only T-mac would join the SA next year and given LA still would retain it's current lineup now, it would be a good matchup. I do beleive, LA would win this year though. ut hey, don't take it from me, I was just expressing my opinion.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow. I usually disagree with most of Sarah's posts, but this one was spot on. Very nice.

**EWRMETS** · 06-09-2004, 03:01 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

Sarah that was a good post but I disagree with claiming that MJ was only the best player in his last 3 years. I think once he hit that shot against Craig Ehlo, he was viewed as the best player in the game. When Magic and Bird were winding down their careers, they acknowledged him as the bset. I also think that Kobe is already better then Miller ever as. Miller may be a better shooter, but Kobe is the better defender, playmaker, driver and defender.

**EWRMETS** · 06-09-2004, 03:01 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

Sarah that was a good post but I disagree with claiming that MJ was only the best player in his last 3 years. I think once he hit that shot against Craig Ehlo, he was viewed as the best player in the game. When Magic and Bird were winding down their careers, they acknowledged him as the bset. I also think that Kobe is already better then Miller ever as. Miller may be a better shooter, but Kobe is the better defender, playmaker, driver and defender.

**EWRMETS** · 06-09-2004, 03:01 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

Sarah that was a good post but I disagree with claiming that MJ was only the best player in his last 3 years. I think once he hit that shot against Craig Ehlo, he was viewed as the best player in the game. When Magic and Bird were winding down their careers, they acknowledged him as the bset. I also think that Kobe is already better then Miller ever as. Miller may be a better shooter, but Kobe is the better defender, playmaker, driver and defender.

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 03:06 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

lemme see...let me think about it...will kobe be better than jordan...nope

when you say kobe will be better than jordan...your implying that he will retire the greatest player ever...b/c that is what mj is right now

do many of us see kobe retiring as the best ever...of course it possible, but highly unlikely...here's why

kobe will have to do everything jordan did plus 1...now look at everything mike did in his career...kobe is too far ahead in his career to accomplish everything...

so i dont think he'll be better than mike ever was

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 03:06 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

lemme see...let me think about it...will kobe be better than jordan...nope

when you say kobe will be better than jordan...your implying that he will retire the greatest player ever...b/c that is what mj is right now

do many of us see kobe retiring as the best ever...of course it possible, but highly unlikely...here's why

kobe will have to do everything jordan did plus 1...now look at everything mike did in his career...kobe is too far ahead in his career to accomplish everything...

so i dont think he'll be better than mike ever was

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 03:06 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

lemme see...let me think about it...will kobe be better than jordan...nope

when you say kobe will be better than jordan...your implying that he will retire the greatest player ever...b/c that is what mj is right now

do many of us see kobe retiring as the best ever...of course it possible, but highly unlikely...here's why

kobe will have to do everything jordan did plus 1...now look at everything mike did in his career...kobe is too far ahead in his career to accomplish everything...

so i dont think he'll be better than mike ever was

**Muzyk23** · 06-09-2004, 05:56 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
EWRMETS said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote> Then he'd be even more like Jordan in his early years.

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe so but remember Jordan didn't have legends surrounding him (at least in the first 3 championships) sure he had Pippen but we all know that Pippen was made better by having Jordan with him. Just look at his career after playing with MJ.

<hr /></blockquote>

Pippen was a great player, and it is unfair to say that Pippen fell off after Jordan left because he didn't in 1994, and after 1998, Pippen was already old. The Bulls won 55 games in 1994 without Jordan, and lost in the 2nd round in seven games. If his support cast was so terrible, they wouldn't have been able to do this. The players that Jordan played with (Pippen, Ho Grant, Paxon, Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, Rodman, Kukoc) are vastly underrated in terms of what they meant to the team. If you actually watch old Bulls games, Jordan was incredible but his teammates were not scrubs. I don't know why all the Kobe haters want to make it seem like he isn't even close to Jordan...of course he is. While I'd still say Jordan is better, Kobe is very close, and one day might even be better. Open your eyes, Kobe is insane.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hope you're kidding... he will never be better than MJ

**Muzyk23** · 06-09-2004, 05:56 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
EWRMETS said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote> Then he'd be even more like Jordan in his early years.

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe so but remember Jordan didn't have legends surrounding him (at least in the first 3 championships) sure he had Pippen but we all know that Pippen was made better by having Jordan with him. Just look at his career after playing with MJ.

<hr /></blockquote>

Pippen was a great player, and it is unfair to say that Pippen fell off after Jordan left because he didn't in 1994, and after 1998, Pippen was already old. The Bulls won 55 games in 1994 without Jordan, and lost in the 2nd round in seven games. If his support cast was so terrible, they wouldn't have been able to do this. The players that Jordan played with (Pippen, Ho Grant, Paxon, Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, Rodman, Kukoc) are vastly underrated in terms of what they meant to the team. If you actually watch old Bulls games, Jordan was incredible but his teammates were not scrubs. I don't know why all the Kobe haters want to make it seem like he isn't even close to Jordan...of course he is. While I'd still say Jordan is better, Kobe is very close, and one day might even be better. Open your eyes, Kobe is insane.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hope you're kidding... he will never be better than MJ

**Muzyk23** · 06-09-2004, 05:56 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
EWRMETS said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote> Then he'd be even more like Jordan in his early years.

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe so but remember Jordan didn't have legends surrounding him (at least in the first 3 championships) sure he had Pippen but we all know that Pippen was made better by having Jordan with him. Just look at his career after playing with MJ.

<hr /></blockquote>

Pippen was a great player, and it is unfair to say that Pippen fell off after Jordan left because he didn't in 1994, and after 1998, Pippen was already old. The Bulls won 55 games in 1994 without Jordan, and lost in the 2nd round in seven games. If his support cast was so terrible, they wouldn't have been able to do this. The players that Jordan played with (Pippen, Ho Grant, Paxon, Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, Rodman, Kukoc) are vastly underrated in terms of what they meant to the team. If you actually watch old Bulls games, Jordan was incredible but his teammates were not scrubs. I don't know why all the Kobe haters want to make it seem like he isn't even close to Jordan...of course he is. While I'd still say Jordan is better, Kobe is very close, and one day might even be better. Open your eyes, Kobe is insane.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hope you're kidding... he will never be better than MJ

**Admiral50** · 06-09-2004, 06:30 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Kobe is a very good player. I'd put him in T-Mac's place but I would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote>

Exactly!

If Jordan has Shaq, he may have shot 70%

Ok, joke aside, I still say swap Kobe with McGrady or a few other guys and you see something very similar. One very good player not good enough to help a poor team and another guy having things easier than he should (I mean, c'mon remove Shaq and they don't do jack) and looking better than he may be.

Too many fans here have 24 hour memories...

**Admiral50** · 06-09-2004, 06:30 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Kobe is a very good player. I'd put him in T-Mac's place but I would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote>

Exactly!

If Jordan has Shaq, he may have shot 70%

Ok, joke aside, I still say swap Kobe with McGrady or a few other guys and you see something very similar. One very good player not good enough to help a poor team and another guy having things easier than he should (I mean, c'mon remove Shaq and they don't do jack) and looking better than he may be.

Too many fans here have 24 hour memories...

**Admiral50** · 06-09-2004, 06:30 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Kobe is a very good player. I'd put him in T-Mac's place but I would really like to see how Kobe does with his OWN team and not surrounded by legends or even sharing the spotlight with arguably the most dominant center since Bill Russell.

<hr /></blockquote>

Exactly!

If Jordan has Shaq, he may have shot 70%

Ok, joke aside, I still say swap Kobe with McGrady or a few other guys and you see something very similar. One very good player not good enough to help a poor team and another guy having things easier than he should (I mean, c'mon remove Shaq and they don't do jack) and looking better than he may be.

Too many fans here have 24 hour memories...

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 06:32 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

or did you forget that rebound he snatched from duncan

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 06:32 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

or did you forget that rebound he snatched from duncan

How good is Kobe?

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