Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

[PabloLFC]

Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Battier's defensive rating was worse in that one series than Kawhi's is for his entire career so far, and every post season run bar last season.

Battier never had a defensive rating per 100 possessions below 100 points in his entire career. Kawhi has had 4 in 5 seasons, whilst also being a far superior offensive player and the defensive leader in a historically great defensive team.


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[23]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Believe me i'll never forget how Yao Ming got completely dominated by both Carlos Boozer and Meme Okur.

I also remember Deron Williams having his way.

I also remember one game where McGrady was the only dude who scored.. I believe one quarter the team had what 4 points?

Battier was a non factor. Even though Utah was the better team, his last words summed it all up. Told McGrady to score 40 and they'd win the game for him. McGrady scored 40 and the rest of them laid eggs in a blowout.

Nobody overrated Shane Battier as some kind of DPOY candidate.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Battier's defensive rating was worse in that one series than Kawhi's is for his entire career so far, and every post season run bar last season.

Battier never had a defensive rating per 100 possessions below 100 points in his entire career. Kawhi has had 4 in 5 seasons, whilst also being a far superior offensive player and the defensive leader in a historically great defensive team.


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Defensive rating is a bogus statistic that doesn't communicate much about a defender's true ability. Numbers can't calculate denied passes, arrested dribbles, and fighting through screens.

Believe me i'll never forget how Yao Ming got completely dominated by both Carlos Boozer and Meme Okur.

I also remember Deron Williams having his way.

I also remember one game where McGrady was the only dude who scored.. I believe one quarter the team had what 4 points?

Battier was a non factor. Even though Utah was the better team, his last words summed it all up. Told McGrady to score 40 and they'd win the game for him. McGrady scored 40 and the rest of them laid eggs in a blowout.

Nobody overrated Shane Battier as some kind of DPOY candidate.

Utah relied on team offense, so Battier wasn't challenged directly much. McGrady putting up big numbers in a blowout isn't impressive.

You seem to be ignoring the 07 series between Utah and Houston. Who could forget that game 7 where Battier's clutch play at both ends inspired his teammates? And who could forget McGrady's choke artistry in the closing minutes of that game?

[ojandpizza]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Battier was always a solid defender, but not at the level you're trying to prop him up to be. His biggest strength was just how high his defensive IQ was, and he could use his length well. He was always in the right spots..

But he was never, at any point, the best defender in the league. His best moments were some duels with Kobe, ones where Kobe often torched him anyways. But you can't overrate an entire players defensive career just because he had a couple of strong games against Kobe..


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[23]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Way overrated. The point of my post is that his defensive presence whatever it was meant little to nothing at all in helping the team win, while Kawhi's team remained #1 defense all year, and a top defense points allowed all time

[AlexBrady]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Battier was always a solid defender, but not at the level you're trying to prop him up to be. His biggest strength was just how high his defensive IQ was, and he could use his length well. He was always in the right spots..

But he was never, at any point, the best defender in the league. His best moments were some duels with Kobe, ones where Kobe often torched him anyways. But you can't overrate an entire players defensive career just because he had a couple of strong games against Kobe..


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Battier was the top defender in the league from 05 to 07. His IQ was off the charts. Knew his opponents strengths and weaknesses to the slightest details. He had strength too, enough to blast through any loose screens.

Battier's defensive prowess doesn't come down to a few moments but over many years game in and game out. From Kobe to Lebron from Carmelo to Nowitzki.

Way overrated. The point of my post is that his defensive presence whatever it was meant little to nothing at all in helping the team win, while Kawhi's team remained #1 defense all year, and a top defense points allowed all time

Rated just right. The fact that his teams didn't win the games in question does nothing to take away from his performance. Within the battle exists a continuum that transcends the final score.

San Antonio has consistently made the best baseline rotations in the league. You think that helps out Leonard greatly? They are probably the best defense in todays game but still can't touch the best defenses of all time (65 Celtics and 96 Bulls).

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

It's nonsense, really

Disregard stats
Disregard performances
Disregard actual outcomes

Rely on adjectives, verbs and the sole fact that they played in a time before this one.

[J_Posse]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Tim Duncan has never been an above average straight up defender, though his baseline rotations have always been outstanding. Allen, Battier, and Marion were better defenders than Leonard currently is.

LMAO

Just ridiculous, man.

from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ

[23]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Battier was the top defender in the league from 05 to 07. His IQ was off the charts. Knew his opponents strengths and weaknesses to the slightest details. He had strength too, enough to blast through any loose screens.

Battier's defensive prowess doesn't come down to a few moments but over many years game in and game out. From Kobe to Lebron from Carmelo to Nowitzki.



Rated just right. The fact that his teams didn't win the games in question does nothing to take away from his performance. Within the battle exists a continuum that transcends the final score.

San Antonio has consistently made the best baseline rotations in the league. You think that helps out Leonard greatly? They are probably the best defense in todays game but still can't touch the best defenses of all time (65 Celtics and 96 Bulls).

Take that L, Alex Brady

You're arguing for a dude who never sniffed a DPOY award thus he doesn't belong in this conversation.

[J_Posse]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

It's nonsense, really

Disregard stats
Disregard performances
Disregard actual outcomes

Rely on adjectives, verbs and the sole fact that they played in a time before this one.

No, but not Tim Duncan, one of the greatest defensive big men ever, cause he supposedly wasn't a "great" individual defender and can't touch Dave Debusschere.


from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ

[AlexBrady]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

It's nonsense, really

Disregard stats
Disregard performances
Disregard actual outcomes

Rely on adjectives, verbs and the sole fact that they played in a time before this one.

Relying on hundreds of full and detailed looks at these guys.

Take that L, Alex Brady

You're arguing for a dude who never sniffed a DPOY award thus he doesn't belong in this conversation.

The DPOY award is bogus as I've already proved, voted on by mostly know nothings who couldn't describe what the different job descriptions are of the defenders.

No, but not Tim Duncan, one of the greatest defensive big men ever, cause he supposedly wasn't a "great" individual defender and can't touch Dave Debusschere.


from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ

Duncan is one of the best help defenders ever. Straight up defense is a different category altogether and he can't touch Dave DeBusschere there.

[wwharton]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

Is basketball really a team sport though? You look at the NBA champions from 2000 until now and they all have had at least 1 superstar with the exception of the 04 Pistons, which I disagree with but I will give it you guys. And even looking at the teams that lost in the Finals going back to the finals most of those teams had at least 1 superstar with the exception being that Pistons team again. You don't see teams like the Hawks, Celtics, etc. winning a championship or even making the Finals.

Basketball is MOST DEFINITELY a team sport. Don't let these ease of play at the pro level and the occasions of hero ball fool you. The number of superstars you have doesn't determine whether or not it's a team sport.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

AlexBrady, are you an actual Basketball writer/historian or are you just a regular dude that watches like the rest of us? Just curious

[PabloLFC]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

He's a regular dude like all of he watches really closely. You guys just watch where the ball is, this guy is watching how the bench is celebrating and pauses the TV when a player makes a block to work out at exactly what angle his body is at.

Its snobbery man, when people think they're so analytically gifted that they see things that we don't. That's what the NBA hires people to do and i doubt anybody will back you up on half your points.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Defensive Player of the Year: Kawhi Leonard

He's been doing that for years and even before you started posting here.

Me and him have gotten into it before, but I was genuinely curious.