POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

[Smallville102001]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

This is exactly how I feel but I've heard both narratives and was interested in where the community's stands.



I don't think Harden gets superstar calls more than any other star (and by superstar calls I mean drawing a foul when there isn't contact). He DOES get a lot more calls than other stars but it's because he seeks out contact. Examples are:
1. Pump fake, then jump into the defender when they leave their feet
2. Using the eurostep then driving into someone while they're backpedaling and not set.
3. Bringing his arms up through a defenders arms and launching a shot (usually results in three free throws).
4. Doing this sweeping motion where his arms go through his defenders outstretched arms on layup attempts.

Basically if you reach at all Harden will exploit it and force the ref to make a call. So the options are foul on the other player or a no call, both of which happen frequently which results in
- a lot of free throws for the former - which Harden leads the league in
- a lot of turnovers for the latter - which Harden leads the league in

(This is why the Rockets live with the high TO numbers and sometimes low FG% because you know next time that missed shot or ball going out of bounds will be two free throws for James)

Harden is actually the reason I made this thread because drawing fouls is a skill set he excels at and it sucks when one of his biggest weapons is taken from him in the spirit of players "deciding the game". I think a lot of the fouls he draws should not be fouls (especially the offensive player initiating contact) but it's how the game has always been called, so if they're not going to change the rules, then players like Harden shouldn't be punished when the game is called differently at the end.

Btw: I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion as Harden is not a well-liked player.

I have to disagree big time with Harden yes drawling fouls is a skill but he gets so many fouls called when there is zero contract that not one other player would get in the NBA. There have been years where the amount of FT makes he has per game is higher then the second highest player in the NBA attempts per game gets and for him to have more makes then any other player has attempts per game is just straight up bs. Also when it comes to the whole myth of most superstar players getting calls there is a reason that star players tend to get more FT attempts. 1 They are harder to stop then a average NBA player so they are going to has a result drawl more contact and beat defenders more often then your average player. 2 Because they are better they are going to be playing more minutes and with playing more minutes that is more chances for them to drawl contact. 3 Kind of goes with the first 2 but because of those things they are going to be shooting more often so again more chances to be fouled. Also playing style makes a difference. If you look at some one like Curry he shoots more jump shoots then some one like Harden and you tend to get fouled more when you are driving then when you take jump shoots.

[wco81]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Is stepping on a player's foot, causing him to fall a foul?

Must not be, because you wouldn't expect the officiating to favor a journeyman like Richard Jefferson to get away with one against KD?

Even at the end of a game?

[BigDaddyHolmes]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Jefferson didn't make a foul on Durant. Watching replays clearly shows he pulled up and didn't run into him any harder then every other play they wouldn't call. However, I do feel that either Durant tripped over tangled feet possibly (not a foul), or maybe flopped to get to the line.

I also know KD is a fantastic player, but one of the worst finishers to ever play the game. It's the reason he has zero rings even with Westbrook and a solid team around him.

Cavs are now 4-0 in the last 4 games against GSW, even with KD upgrade. They put the nail in the coffin for me and no question deserved their title. The better team won.....4 times in a row. Clearly they have GSW number for now. On paper GSW is the better team for sure, even though I think LBJ and Irving are the better top 2 player combo's.

[Smallville102001]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Jefferson didn't make a foul on Durant. Watching replays clearly shows he pulled up and didn't run into him any harder then every other play they wouldn't call. However, I do feel that either Durant tripped over tangled feet possibly (not a foul), or maybe flopped to get to the line.

I also know KD is a fantastic player, but one of the worst finishers to ever play the game. It's the reason he has zero rings even with Westbrook and a solid team around him.

Cavs are now 4-0 in the last 4 games against GSW, even with KD upgrade. They put the nail in the coffin for me and no question deserved their title. The better team won.....4 times in a row. Clearly they have GSW number for now. On paper GSW is the better team for sure, even though I think LBJ and Irving are the better top 2 player combo's.

I think this is a over reaction. First I don't think there was any contact at all on the KD play and was shocked to see talk about KD being fouled when I came onto this thread tonight. It looked like he just slipped and lost his balance and nothing more. Second GS just flat out chocked last year one of the biggest chock jobs ever. Also I still think Curry is a much better player then Irving but for some reason Cavs look to have Curry's number.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

http://www.nba.com/games/20161225/GSWCLE#/video

(Click on Durant's final possession video)

Jefferson definitely stepped on Durant's foot on the final play, causing Durant to stumble. Is stepping on the foot considered a foul?

[wco81]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Well NBA officially said foul should have been called:

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/last-two-minute-report-kevin-durant-fouled/

Also said LBJ should have gotten a technical.

Oh well, it doesn't change the result, they admit they goofed on those two calls.

But no guarantee it won't happen again, even in the playoffs, where refs will swallow their whistles.

Probably no LTMRs in the playoffs.

[issaknife]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Well NBA officially said foul should have been called:

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/last-two-minute-report-kevin-durant-fouled/

Also said LBJ should have gotten a technical.

Oh well, it doesn't change the result, they admit they goofed on those two calls.

But no guarantee it won't happen again, even in the playoffs, where refs will swallow their whistles.

Probably no LTMRs in the playoffs.

I don't understand the 2 minute reports. What's the point of admitting you screwed up? All it's gonna do is make people mad. If the foul is called, Warriors most likely win. That being said, there were some bad calls against Cleveland. RJ's tech, that charge Liggins took should have been called.

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[Cavsfan4life]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I don't understand the 2 minute reports. What's the point of admitting you screwed up? All it's gonna do is make people mad. If the foul is called, Warriors most likely win. That being said, there were some bad calls against Cleveland. RJ's tech, that charge Liggins took should have been called.

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Agreed about the 2 minute reviews. This is why I hate these two minute reports, there are calls that are missed all game that don't get called, but they are only going to review the final two minutes?

As far as it costing them the game, they put themselves in that position and like it was mentioned there were some calls/non-calls that didn't get called for the Cavs.

[ojandpizza]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I really don't think the RJ thing was the refs swallowing their whistle, but more so just a missed call.

The hand touch, "push", definitely wasn't enough to warrant a foul considering there is that much contact any time any player has the ball literally every trip up the court.

I didn't even see the foot trip myself until 24 pointed it out in the game thread despite seeing the replay over and over as they showed it live. They definitely got tangled, but if you believe the closest referee was staring right at the feet and just decided not to call anything then I think you're being a bit naive. There was literally an inch or two of foot contact, and it happens so fast.

[IMG]

Not something you'll catch 100% of the time in real time. We see fouls often called on the inbounds like that, and even with calling the foul Cleveland would have had time to get a score after free throws. So I don't really buy that this was a "we're not deciding this on a whistle" type of play.


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[Smallville102001]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

So I have seen the replay of the last play of the game from the Cavs and GS game like 6 times now and I have no idea still what people are talking about. I didn't see any stepping on KD's foot and only saw maybe a little of the players legs getting tied up with what was if any thing incidental contact and had they called that it would have been extremely tick tack kind of call. So the call was right.

[kac]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

KD getting his foot stepped on accedently isn't what cost the warriors the game.Blowing a 14 point lead in the 4th is what cost them the game.

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[wco81]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

KD getting his foot stepped on accedently isn't what cost the warriors the game.Blowing a 14 point lead in the 4th is what cost them the game.

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That's true, but despite blowing that lead, they were still in a position to tie or win in that last possession, which is what this thread is about, whether standards of officiating suddenly change in the last seconds of a game from the previous 47 minutes plus.

It doesn't matter what a team did or failed to do up to those last few seconds. The question is, should the way the game is officiated change in those last seconds, not what a certain team did.

Or are you saying if a team plays poorly, the officials should let the other team get away with fouling them?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I can't remember. Did the Cavs have a foul to give on that last possession? If not, then yeah, the Warriors lost that game because of the missed call. All that "blowing a lead" talk is nice coach speak if you have to address the team in the locker room and in film study the next day, but odds are Kevin Durant is knocking down two free throws in a game they lost by one point or at the very least tying it.

[wco81]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

It would have been two free throws.

[kac]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Living in Cleveland my whole life I'm not used to people hating our team for being good I better enjoy it while I can.

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