2017 Offseason Thread

[z Revis]

2017 Offseason Thread

Yeah because its freaking Larry Bird, I believe he knew the storm was coming.



I understand he would've stepped down anyway but all of the timing of this is just too close.



PG was already throwing everybody under the bus and that was after he and Bird butted heads in the beginning of the year.

I can't disagree with that.. they've been butting heads ever since Bird tried to get him to play the 4 in '15. But I still can't say he knew. The timing fits, but if he knew why wouldn't he have traded him at the deadline when he was getting god offers from Denver(rumored anyway) and whoever else.

But it's also been around for a while that PG was opting out and these LA rumors. And he gave y'all a year notice. Like, what more could you want?

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It's been rumored, it was never confirmed. You hear PG talk and you hear a guy that still wants to stick around in Indy and see things through. It's been reported and Pritchard confirmed last night in his press conference he's had many private discussions with PG since the season ended about the future and about his plans to put a team around him(he even said he asked PG his input on moves he'd like to see them make) and PG never gave any indication he was planning to leave. I mean.. what are you going to believe as a GM? Rumors or speaking to the guy face to face... on top of that dude didn't even have the balls to tell Pritchard his decision himself, he had his agent call him.

And again, I'm not mad he announced he's leaving. I'm mad he said he was leaving and is going to LA. Then his agent is calling teams up and telling them he won't resign with any team no matter who he's traded to.... no one is giving up anything of value because of that. Had he simply said I plan to opt out next year and none of this LA bs or refusing to resign with anyone, I think teams wouldn't be as hesitant to give us at least something. But we will see how it shakes out...



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[z Revis]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

And King, my bad for derailing the topic lol. I hear you though. Feels like ya'll have been calling for their firings for like 5 years now and they're still around running **** into the ground.


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[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

And King, my bad for derailing the topic lol. I hear you though. Feels like ya'll have been calling for their firings for like 5 years now and they're still around running **** into the ground.


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No worries at all man, this the offseason thread, not the Bulls thread. I've got more than enough opportunities to rant about this team in the coming months/years.


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[23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

[QUOTE=z Revis;2048881945]

I can't disagree with that.. they've been butting heads ever since Bird tried to get him to play the 4 in '15.

Yeah but more recently that was the beginning of this past season and Bird went on to say he doesnt care what PG wants.

But I still can't say he knew. The timing fits, but if he knew why wouldn't he have traded him at the deadline when he was getting god offers from Denver(rumored anyway) and whoever else.

I think he knew it was pretty much over either way and didn't want to deal with the fallout, of the trade or the fans.

[z Revis]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

[QUOTE=23;2048881965]

Yeah but more recently that was the beginning of this past season and Bird went on to say he doesnt care what PG wants.







I think he knew it was pretty much over either way and didn't want to deal with the fallout, of the trade or the fans.

I hear you man, it's possible, but again Pritchard apparently didn't know. PG talked to this guy face to face multiple times the past couple months and never gave any indication. And Bird is still a team consultant with Indy, it ain't like he just up and left to his vacation home wherever that is. So I don't know. The whole situation is fishy to me. Everything seemed to be pointing one direction the past month or so(which was PG was willing to stay this season to see things through and make a decision next summer) and then it immediately came to a halt for some reason, just days after PG was at a charity softball event and was asked if he wanted to stay in Indy and he said "of course." Obviously not.... My hot take is still that Magic/LA tampered in some way lol. It is what it is though. I'm fine moving on. If he doesn't want to be a Pacer, then don't. I have confidence in Pritch leading the way, even though I disagree with that 1st round pick last night of Leaf... the next Troy Murphy.


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[23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

For sure once he went public and all that he screwed the Pacers. That was a done deal the second they let that leak.

..but there is no equal value in trading a star. The quicker he comes to that conclusion the quicker the team can move on.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Danny Ainge thought Minnesota gave up too much.

That's the real take of the day.

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Idk, I mean coming out of the draft Dunn was projected to be a better player than anyone in this trade. And he still could be. If he develops to be better than Jimmy, or even as good as Jimmy, then the Bulls killed this trade. LaVine was already scoring at nearly the rate Jimmy was, and that was with sharing his looks with Wiggins and Towns. If his knee is fine and he's still developing he could end up every bit as good as Jimmy. He was a better player at 20 and 21 than Jimmy was until the year he turned 25.

I understand Jimmy is a good 2-way player, but being a good perimeter defender on a team that doesn't have 4 other good defenders on the court is almost worthless. And Jimmy isn't so good offensively that he's taking over games consistently, and he's not a top tier scorer either. He's a great player, but not made to carry a team, and I think they actually got the better end of the deal than Minny did.

If LaVine were to get any better than he already is, and Dunn reached the All Star level he was touted to become, they could have had those 2 along with Wiggins and Towns all in their prime at the same time. That would have been a better package than Jimmy when he's old, especially since he's likely topping out right now. He's going to be a 3rd team guy at best from here on out. If those other two both reach all star level then they already lost this trade.

I don't understand how any Chicago fan could be made about this trade honestly. By the time the players you picked up to "rebuild" with get to that level Jimmy will be overpaid and past his prime. They could have made a better draft choice with their pick so I would be mad about that, but the trade was the ideal rebuild move IMO.




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[z Revis]

2017 Offseason Thread

Idk, I mean coming out of the draft Dunn was projected to be a better player than anyone in this trade. And he still could be. If he develops to be better than Jimmy, or even as good as Jimmy, then the Bulls killed this trade. LaVine was already scoring at nearly the rate Jimmy was, and that was with sharing his looks with Wiggins and Towns. If his knee is fine and he's still developing he could end up every bit as good as Jimmy. He was a better player at 20 and 21 than Jimmy was until the year he turned 25.

I understand Jimmy is a good 2-way player, but being a good perimeter defender on a team that doesn't have 4 other good defenders on the court is almost worthless. And Jimmy isn't so good offensively that he's taking over games consistently, and he's not a top tier scorer either. He's a great player, but not made to carry a team, and I think they actually got the better end of the deal than Minny did.

If LaVine were to get any better than he already is, and Dunn reached the All Star level he was touted to become, they could have had those 2 along with Wiggins and Towns all in their prime at the same time. That would have been a better package than Jimmy when he's old, especially since he's likely topping out right now. He's going to be a 3rd team guy at best from here on out. If those other two both reach all star level then they already lost this trade.

I don't understand how any Chicago fan could be made about this trade honestly. By the time the players you picked up to "rebuild" with get to that level Jimmy will be overpaid and past his prime. They could have made a better draft choice with their pick so I would be mad about that, but the trade was the ideal rebuild move IMO.




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All if's though. Dunn didn't show anything his first year and LaVine is coming off ACL surgery. And I don't think Chicago should've had to send them their 16th pick back either. I think Chicagos pick of Markkanen is what took the trade to an extra level of bad lol.

It's possible it works out though. Honestly i would've taken that trade for PG(which was rumored but I doubt it was true) just for the 7th pick. Damn sure wouldn't have chosen Markkanen though.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Of course it's all "ifs". That's there no matter what direction you go with a rebuild.


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[CMH]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Of course it's all "ifs". That's there no matter what direction you go with a rebuild.


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Yeah the anger is about the projection not being realized yet. But that's what happens when you trade stars. It's all for hope in return.

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[23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The anger is long standing. They've been making bad decisions for a long time now to the point the fans want new management.

Jimmy who is an all star and an olympian was basically the last good thing the team had and they double-crossed him for all his loyalty to the organization.

Let alone other stars actually wanting to come there. How would you feel lol?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Incoming rant

Spoiler

The anger is a combination of a lot of things. It's firing Scott Skiles on Christmas Eve. It's John Paxson physically assaulting Vinny Del Negro and nothing happening. Firing Ron Adams behind Thibs' back because they're feuding with him. Not being able to get along with Thibs in the first place. Pushing him out the door to hire their yes man college coach which was basically the Tim Floyd/Phil Jackson saga all over again. The spinal tap on Luol Deng. Trading Deng while he still had value and only getting a protected first round pick for him, which turned into the second round pick that they SOLD to the goddam Golden State Warriors last night. The handling of the Derrick Rose situation. The fact that when Derrick was healthy and the MVP they were all over Chicago media smiling and laughing soaking up all the good feels and the second Derrick went down and they're draft selections started to go bust and the teams were looking bad they locked themselves up in the facilities refusing to go on the radio here to answer the questions the fanbase had about the direction of the team. Hoiberg's first year after the last game of the season when the missed the playoffs for the first time in 5 years they didn't even address the media simply putting out a statement to avoid having to answer any tough questions.

There's more but it actually annoys me thinking of all of the crap that's gone on with them. That's all before we get to the root of this problem. This could have been avoided. From the start they've made this Jimmy Butler situation harder than it needed to be. From the jump they screwed it up. They let 2.5 million dollars come between them and a contract extension for him. Instead of a 48 million dollar contract they ended up with a 90 million dollar deal. That alone should be a fireable offense. Then last year, there was still a chance to build around Jimmy as they should have by putting young guys around him. Instead of "getting younger and more athletic" as they spouted off after trading Rose and letting Noah walk, they signed Wade and Rondo. They traded McDermott and Taj for nothing and actually gave up a pick in that trade to OKC. Then we get to yesterday, by Gar's own admission they hadn't even decided they would rebuild UNTIL yesterday. Then to decide you're going to rebuild and GIVE UP draft picks in a trade for your best player a top 15 player in the league is complete lunacy.

I get it. Once they signed Rondo and Wade last year Jimmy's days were pretty much numbered, this was going to have to happen to get better. But as I've said the whole time about this Jimmy trade. I don't trust these two to rebuild this team. If we just HAD to move Jimmy then I was for it if Jerry got off his sorry *** and cleaned house in the front office and got rid of that idiot Hoiberg. You hire a new GM and let him start from scratch. If he wants to build around Jimmy, cool. If he wants to move him to shape his team, then so be it. But I know we're stuck with GarPax so there was no point trading Jimmy because they'd **** up the rebuild and they've already done it by taking the wrong person at 7, giving up 16 and friggin selling 38. They're talking about needing Wade for veteran leadership and I know these cheap bastards aren't trying to just give away 23 million for a buyout to him AND 3.5 to buyout Rondo too. If you're blowing it up, then blow it all the way up. Get rid of those two, get rid of Lopez, we don't need to stumble into 20 wins during a "rebuild."

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[KwiLL23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Incoming rant

Spoiler

The anger is a combination of a lot of things. It's firing Scott Skiles on Christmas Eve. It's John Paxson physically assaulting Vinny Del Negro and nothing happening. Firing Ron Adams behind Thibs' back because they're feuding with him. Not being able to get along with Thibs in the first place. Pushing him out the door to hire their yes man college coach which was basically the Tim Floyd/Phil Jackson saga all over again. The spinal tap on Luol Deng. Trading Deng while he still had value and only getting a protected first round pick for him, which turned into the second round pick that they SOLD to the goddam Golden State Warriors last night. The handling of the Derrick Rose situation. The fact that when Derrick was healthy and the MVP they were all over Chicago media smiling and laughing soaking up all the good feels and the second Derrick went down and they're draft selections started to go bust and the teams were looking bad they locked themselves up in the facilities refusing to go on the radio here to answer the questions the fanbase had about the direction of the team. Hoiberg's first year after the last game of the season when the missed the playoffs for the first time in 5 years they didn't even address the media simply putting out a statement to avoid having to answer any tough questions.

There's more but it actually annoys me thinking of all of the crap that's gone on with them. That's all before we get to the root of this problem. This could have been avoided. From the start they've made this Jimmy Butler situation harder than it needed to be. From the jump they screwed it up. They let 2.5 million dollars come between them and a contract extension for him. Instead of a 48 million dollar contract they ended up with a 90 million dollar deal. That alone should be a fireable offense. Then last year, there was still a chance to build around Jimmy as they should have by putting young guys around him. Instead of "getting younger and more athletic" as they spouted off after trading Rose and letting Noah walk, they signed Wade and Rondo. They traded McDermott and Taj for nothing and actually gave up a pick in that trade to OKC. Then we get to yesterday, by Gar's own admission they hadn't even decided they would rebuild UNTIL yesterday. Then to decide you're going to rebuild and GIVE UP draft picks in a trade for your best player a top 15 player in the league is complete lunacy.

I get it. Once they signed Rondo and Wade last year Jimmy's days were pretty much numbered, this was going to have to happen to get better. But as I've said the whole time about this Jimmy trade. I don't trust these two to rebuild this team. If we just HAD to move Jimmy then I was for it if Jerry got off his sorry *** and cleaned house in the front office and got rid of that idiot Hoiberg. You hire a new GM and let him start from scratch. If he wants to build around Jimmy, cool. If he wants to move him to shape his team, then so be it. But I know we're stuck with GarPax so there was no point trading Jimmy because they'd **** up the rebuild and they've already done it by taking the wrong person at 7, giving up 16 and friggin selling 38. They're talking about needing Wade for veteran leadership and I know these cheap bastards aren't trying to just give away 23 million for a buyout to him AND 3.5 to buyout Rondo too. If you're blowing it up, then blow it all the way up. Get rid of those two, get rid of Lopez, we don't need to stumble into 20 wins during a "rebuild."

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That's a serious rant lol. You hit the nail on the coffin with everything you said. Gar and John just look like goofs and snakes. I was still salty about how the Rose trade went. When he was MVP and we started losing the bench mob that had hurt me most. Then with them saying last year "we're trying to get younger" and they brought in Rondo and Wade, that was just stupid. Then almost ended up with Calderon too. 😔😔😔

[Caveman24]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Idk, I mean coming out of the draft Dunn was projected to be a better player than anyone in this trade. And he still could be. If he develops to be better than Jimmy, or even as good as Jimmy, then the Bulls killed this trade. LaVine was already scoring at nearly the rate Jimmy was, and that was with sharing his looks with Wiggins and Towns. If his knee is fine and he's still developing he could end up every bit as good as Jimmy. He was a better player at 20 and 21 than Jimmy was until the year he turned 25.

I understand Jimmy is a good 2-way player, but being a good perimeter defender on a team that doesn't have 4 other good defenders on the court is almost worthless. And Jimmy isn't so good offensively that he's taking over games consistently, and he's not a top tier scorer either. He's a great player, but not made to carry a team, and I think they actually got the better end of the deal than Minny did.

If LaVine were to get any better than he already is, and Dunn reached the All Star level he was touted to become, they could have had those 2 along with Wiggins and Towns all in their prime at the same time. That would have been a better package than Jimmy when he's old, especially since he's likely topping out right now. He's going to be a 3rd team guy at best from here on out. If those other two both reach all star level then they already lost this trade.

I don't understand how any Chicago fan could be made about this trade honestly. By the time the players you picked up to "rebuild" with get to that level Jimmy will be overpaid and past his prime. They could have made a better draft choice with their pick so I would be mad about that, but the trade was the ideal rebuild move IMO.




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I could see if Dunn was 20 headed into his 2nd year. That man is 23 & will be 24 during his 2nd season lol. Realistically, he's maxed out unless he makes a huge leap.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I hear you man, it's possible, but again Pritchard apparently didn't know. PG talked to this guy face to face multiple times the past couple months and never gave any indication. And Bird is still a team consultant with Indy, it ain't like he just up and left to his vacation home wherever that is. So I don't know. The whole situation is fishy to me. Everything seemed to be pointing one direction the past month or so(which was PG was willing to stay this season to see things through and make a decision next summer) and then it immediately came to a halt for some reason, just days after PG was at a charity softball event and was asked if he wanted to stay in Indy and he said "of course." Obviously not.... My hot take is still that Magic/LA tampered in some way lol. It is what it is though. I'm fine moving on. If he doesn't want to be a Pacer, then don't. I have confidence in Pritch leading the way, even though I disagree with that 1st round pick last night of Leaf... the next Troy Murphy.


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If Kevin Pritchard really didn't know he should be fired immediately. There's no reason this forum should be more informed than he is.

He's not dumb, he knew. That press conference was just a sympathy play for fans and.... you're eating it up.