2017 Offseason Thread

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Didn't CP3 push the Clippers FO to trade him to Houston? I hear what you're saying but winning still matters. Obviously no one is signing with the 20 something win 76ers until they're actually good.

And for every Monroe and Milsap signing, there's LeBron James and Bosh, there's Durant, there's Hayward, there's PG. So not sure how that disproves anything other than just saying "well non stars will sign with smaller markets."





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Everybody's got the same problems man. "Small market" teams always have an easy excuse when **** hits the fan for them is all.

[RedSceptile]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Didn't CP3 push the Clippers FO to trade him to Houston? I hear what you're saying but winning still matters. Obviously no one is signing with the 20 something win 76ers until they're actually good.

And for every Monroe and Milsap signing, there's LeBron James and Bosh, there's Durant, there's Hayward, there's PG. So not sure how that disproves anything other than just saying "well non stars will sign with smaller markets."





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Chris Paul left the 2nd largest market togo to the 5th. Same for Dwight Howard. LeBron after leaving Cleveland for Miami, went back to Cleveland. Durant left a team in OKC for pretty much a cake walk to a ring (and possibly a few more) you telling me if that GS team didnt already establish themself as the best team in the West Durant would have gone laterally?

Also like King has said you have huge markets like Dallas and Chicago that in Dallas case hasn't signed anyone of relevance in freaking ever or Chicago where guys seem to be off put by management.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The Boston Celtics had to wait 28 years before they signed one semi big name in their prime during free agency. They have the 7th biggest media market in the country. Have a great franchise pedigree, owners are willing to spend to the tax. So why did it take us 28 years to sign a semi big name FA and 29 years to sign a big name FA? We're one of the biggest markets in the country that's supposedly the big thing in the NBA. So I'll wait for an answer.

[trekfan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Didn't CP3 push the Clippers FO to trade him to Houston? I hear what you're saying but winning still matters. Obviously no one is signing with the 20 something win 76ers until they're actually good.

And for every Monroe and Milsap signing, there's LeBron James and Bosh, there's Durant, there's Hayward, there's PG. So not sure how that disproves anything other than just saying "well non stars will sign with smaller markets."





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Got to say, I don't think markets are actually that much a determining factor anymore.

Over the last three offseasons we've seen the Knicks, Nets, and Lakers all strike out on major free agents -- not to mention the Mavericks, who blew it up after the 2011 title and have missed out on major free agents since. Miami, even with Riley and his rings, has repeatedly struck out since LeBron left -- they let their franchise guy in Wade walk for nothing to Chicago.

Reportedly, one of LeBron's biggest gripes with Miami was ownership's unwillingness to spend to give the team the best shot at a title. I think, more than anything, players are taking this view: "If ownership is unwilling to give me the best chance to win, I need to go somewhere else."

And, really, can you blame the guys? They're forced, by the CBA, to spend the first four years of their career on the team that has their draft rights. Then, thanks to restricted free agency, they're likely to spend another 3-4 years on that same team since their current team can match any offers thrown at them.

Teams that draft players, large or small markets, have HUGE financial incentives over outside teams. Hayward left a ton of money on the table in this deal (another guaranteed year and likely somewhere between $30-$35 million dollars I believe).

It comes down to what a player wants. For Hayward, he wanted to compete for a title and wanted to do it with a coach whom he had a strong relationship with. He was going to get hate from Utah no matter what -- whether he left in free agency or requested a trade, that's just understood.

For a guy like Paul George, he -- very clearly -- made his intentions known he wasn't re-signing with Indiana and gave the Pacers a glorious opportunity to get assets back for him; Indiana didn't trade him at the draft and settled for an inferior offer from the Thunder. George, even as a rental for a year, was worth FAR more than what Indiana got back for him.

But Hayward chose his path and that path was to go through the much easier East. Strategically, that makes a lot of sense -- if Boston can be one of the best two teams in the conference, then they have a shot at getting to the Finals, even if LeBron is there. Cleveland is not invincible, their defense was atrocious for most of the year and everyone on that roster is another year older, with more miles on them. Add in the lack of a GM currently and the opportunity is there.

Everyone is assuming the Warriors will get back to the Finals next year, but I wouldn't make that assumption -- the West will be a bloodbath come playoff time and the Warriors are betting that they can make it through the year relatively healthy again -- that's no sure bet with both Durant and Curry on the roster. Even if they make it through the year again, they have to fight through the Rockets, the Spurs, and the suddenly dangerous T'Wolves.

Hayward left because he wanted to go. Utah made moves to appease him -- Ingles being signed, Rubio being traded for -- but they could have had Rubio ages ago if they wanted to. He's been out there as trade bait seemingly forever. Utah wasn't exactly in a rush to get to real contender status ... until last year, when they traded for George Hill and suddenly Hayward's contract was about to be gone. They went with the "slow and steady wins the race" strategy and then tried to accelerate to "contender" status in a year. If Utah was really serious about being a title contender, there were trades available to make -- but they wanted to bet on their homegrown (and cheaper talent). That's a fair play, but that speaks to how far ownership was willing to go.

Ultimately, if a team wants to ensure they keep their best players, they're going to have to spend. If you don't do that -- big or small market -- your best players are more likely to leave.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Obviously no one is signing with the 20 something win 76ers until they're actually good.

Otto Porter is willing to leave a 50 win team to join a 20 win Nets team for less money. Allen Crabbe was ready to do the samething last offseason as well.

And for every Monroe and Milsap signing, there's LeBron James and Bosh, there's Durant, there's Hayward, there's PG. So not sure how that disproves anything other than just saying "well non stars will sign with smaller markets.

Don't forget, Horford left Atlanta to go to Boston, who haven't signed a meaningful FA prior to that in years.

When should we expect Paul George to demand a trade out of OKC? Should happen soon since that's a small market too, right?

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Lol at a franchise tag in the NBA. The fact that it exists in the NFL should be grounds for a malpractice suit against NFLPA leadership.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Hayward left because he wanted to go. Utah made moves to appease him -- Ingles being signed, Rubio being traded for -- but they could have had Rubio ages ago if they wanted to. He's been out there as trade bait seemingly forever. Utah wasn't exactly in a rush to get to real contender status ... until last year, when they traded for George Hill and suddenly Hayward's contract was about to be gone. They went with the "slow and steady wins the race" strategy and then tried to accelerate to "contender" status in a year. If Utah was really serious about being a title contender, there were trades available to make -- but they wanted to bet on their homegrown (and cheaper talent). That's a fair play, but that speaks to how far ownership was willing to go.

Hit the nail on the head.

If fans want to call him a traitor or coward for leaving, by all means. Just remember to direct some of that same negativity towards Ownership for waiting until his contract year to start making moves toward building a contender.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I appreciate these last two pages to help speed this work day. Shout out to small market fans.

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[Caveman24]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Franchise tag? These owners get 3-4 years on the rookie deal then another 4 once they become RFAs. Tell these GMs to draft better & actually spend money to improve the roster & players will stay.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Franchise tag? These owners get 3-4 years on the rookie deal then another 4 once they become RFAs. Tell these GMs to draft better & actually spend money to improve the roster & players will stay.

I'd imagine they'd spend $1B on Bron and KD if the owners allowed them to.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Nick Young to the Warriors for 1 year. This dude bout to get a ring before John Wall


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[J_Posse]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Celtics should move Crowder, they have a serious logjam at the 3 with Hayward, Crowder, Brown, and Tatum.

But Brad Stevens doesn't believe in or worry about positions....

Apparently, you can win with nearly 1/4 of your roster playing the same position, terrible frontcourt depth and not having addressed the big need at center. I guess Tyler Zeller will man the middle, now.

from Bills Backer/Spurs Nation HQ

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

But Brad Stevens doesn't believe in or worry about positions....

Apparently, you can win with nearly 1/4 of your roster playing the same position, terrible frontcourt depth and not having addressed the big need at center. I guess Tyler Zeller will man the middle, now.

from Bills Backer/Spurs Nation HQ

Zeller got waived 3 days ago. Also as far as I know FA isn't over yet. And we still have some space to fill out the rest of our roster. Also we could trade Smart/Bradley/Crowder for bigs.

[CMH]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Nick Young to the Warriors for 1 year. This dude bout to get a ring before John Wall


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Man, forget John Wall. Nick Young is about to get a ring before any of us in this darn forum. That ain't right.

[dubcity]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I thought you would mention Aldridge, but his situation wasn't the same as this one, OKC/Durant or Cleveland/LeBron. He was a guy heading into his 30's, who had discontentment with his former organization, heading to a older team with one star (Leonard).

I mean, that's one way of spinning that situation after the fact, now that Aldridge's rep is in the trash, but when it happened it was simply a 23/10 stud going to a perennial 55-60 win team, one year removed from winning the Finals, with the best coach in the league. Felt like the very definition of stacking.