2017 Offseason Thread

[cima]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

So Tapatalk says there's 95 unread posts in this thread, so I think "oh ****, Kyrie must've gotten traded!"...and instead it was...whatever the hell I just scrolled through.

Never change, OS.


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[Majingir]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Ya know who else is a poor defender? Every Brooklyn Net besides Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Discuss.

There ya go PPM.

What about Carroll? He's the Lebron stopper

Funny though that apparently Nets didn't even bother with a physical before that deal. They were that desperate to get picks they would take him even if he somehow can't play a single game for them. Spending 30M or whatever it is in order to get a draft pick around 25th and 55th spots lol. Cash considerations alone for a late 2nd costs barely anything.

[49UNCFan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Anyways agree to disagree

I think Kyrie plays better on ball defense than Curry when motivated but I think Curry is a better off ball defender. Neither ones strong suit

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[wwharton]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Explain this https://youtu.be/DZsEiNmODWw

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A 3 minute clip (the last minute was of him getting blocked) of isolated incidents throughout his 8 year career? This is really your go to???

So much so that you posted it 3 different times?

I picked Harden just because he has been continually marked as one of the worst defenders in the league.

For the record, I'm not interested in comparing them and defending Kyrie, just because he plays for my team. I know he's a bad defender unless he wants to be better, I know all that and I don't think he's a better defender than Curry. But I don't think Kyrie being a bad defender and being worse than Curry means that Curry is a good defender, because he really isn't.

But all the back and forth is specifically about Curry vs Irving so bringing up Harden is just muddling the waters. In the current discussion a comparison to anyone but the people in the discussion holds little weight.

If were all on a playground and I guard you and your team agrees for you to not guard me because so and so will do better means they have no confidence in your defense lets get real with experience and eye test and not stats

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That's not what it means and I'm glad I will never have to run with you on a playground.

BTW, even as the best defender on a team on the playground, I've switched off the best offensive player because no one else on my team would be able to double team him properly or make the second shift if someone else doubles. The death of pick up basketball is the mentality that "good defense" is sticking to your man like glue with blinders on and it's everyone else's fault as long as YOUR man doesn't score.

More importantly, especially with the changes in rules for hand checking, there are very few in the NBA who can truly guard today's PGs one on one. Steph's not one of them and neither is Kyrie. Making arguments about one or the other in regard to it does not reinforce any argument. Steph's a smart, capable defender and Kyrie has the potential to be if he decided to give consistent effort. That's really all that's to it, and it's fine if someone disagrees with that... just come with something stronger than a highlight reel of 8 years of play broken down into 3 minutes or "because I said so".

[49UNCFan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

@wwharton all you have to do is watch the finals and you'll see who is the better defender. Steph is horrbile on the pick n roll thats the reason Cleveland had so much success in 2016 especially when Bogut and Green went out and nobody to bail him out

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[cabra1]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

He's in too deep now. He can't go back on his opinion now that he's fought so hard for it.

[49UNCFan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

He's in too deep now. He can't go back on his opinion now that he's fought so hard for it.

My opinion sticks Steph isnt a good defender plain and simple. It's a reason Steph often guards the worse offensive wing on the floor.

If GSW put Steph on Kyrie the series would have probably went the other way.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

It's a reason Steph often guards the worse offensive wing on the floor.

And the reason is because Klay is a better defender than Steph.



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[49UNCFan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

And the reason is because Klay is a better defender than Steph.



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No the reason is Steph cant defend on ball or pick n rolls otherwise they would switch turns like Durant and Iguodala on LeBron to give each other breathers. So keep believing that

[wwharton]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

@wwharton all you have to do is watch the finals and you'll see who is the better defender. Steph is horrbile on the pick n roll thats the reason Cleveland had so much success in 2016 especially when Bogut and Green went out and nobody to bail him out

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I definitely watched (every second) of the finals.

What do you believe the on-ball guard's responsibility is in a pick and roll?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

What about Carroll? He's the Lebron stopper



Funny though that apparently Nets didn't even bother with a physical before that deal. They were that desperate to get picks they would take him even if he somehow can't play a single game for them. Spending 30M or whatever it is in order to get a draft pick around 25th and 55th spots lol. Cash considerations alone for a late 2nd costs barely anything.

Is this what Toronto Media is spinning because you guys ****ed up and gave him that garbage contract and then YOU guys dubbed him the Lebron Stopper? Lol

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Don't get your hopes up for next offseason

Plenty of agents spent this summer trying to explain to their clients that the summer of 2017 was not the summer of 2016 (one I know of even was thanking media members in Las Vegas who wrote about how tight the free agent market had gotten so he could show his clients). Players saw the ridiculous contracts of 2016 — Timofey Mozgov got four-years, $64 million; Bismack Biyombo got four years, almost $70 million; and that’s just the tip of the iceberg, players deep into rosters were overpaid — and thought this summer it would be their turn.

Except it wasn’t. In 2016 the salary cap spiked from $70 million to $94 million and that meant 27 teams entered free agency under the cap (and the teams over it spent big to re-sign their own), and $5 billion in contracts were handed out. This summer, 14 teams were under the $99 million cap and about $3 billion was handed out — and once the stars such as James Harden got paid big, the market dried up and players got less than expected. Four-time All-Star and elite defender Paul Millsap would have been a clear max a year ago, he could “only” get three years (at age 31) at $4 million less than his max. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope would have been a lock max in 2016, he signed a one-year deal with the Lakers for $18 million this summer. And further down the list guys like Rajon Rondo are signing team-friendly deals.

And next summer is going to be a far tighter market. As Tim MacMahon and Bobby Marks of ESPN point out, the free agent class of 2018 is going to pay for the excess of 2016.

The early projections for 2018-19: nine teams with cap space, and potentially 10 teams paying luxury tax.

“The real story is the nuclear winter for free agents coming next year,” one team executive with authority to make personnel decisions told ESPN. “Teams planned the last two summers for the cap to be much higher. The fact that it went way down from the projections crushed teams.”

Another general manager put it this way to ESPN:

“What I see all the time is players not understanding why, ‘This player got this, but I get that?’ They want it to make sense and it just doesn’t make sense. I think you’ll see a lot of agents get fired.

“The top guys will always feed first and then the year of the cap spike, there was a lot left for everybody else to feed. Next year, the top players will still get theirs, and then there will be not much left.”

NBA teams are not going to negotiate deals off the mistakes of 2016, they see that as the outlier to be ignored.

The Summer of 2018 is loaded with top free agents who are going to get max contract offers from their own teams and those with enough cap space to try and poach them — LeBron James, Kevin Durant (he will re-sign with Warriors), Russell Westbrook, Paul George, Chris Paul, DeMarcus Cousins, plus restricted guys who could see max deals such as Joel Embiid and Nikola Jokic. There’s even a second tier of guys who will be maxed out or close to it — Andrew Wiggins (extension eligible right now), DeAndre Jordan, Isaiah Thomas, and others.

But that next tier down? How much will teams pay for Robert Covington? Aaron Gordon? Clint Capela? Kentavious Caldwell-Pope? Danny Green? And for guys counting on the one-year deals they signed this summer to boost their stock — we can use Derrick Rose as an example — even if they play well they may not see the money they expect.

The league and owners had wanted to smooth in the salary cap spike of 2016, raising it fair amount over three or five years to avoid the spending spree, but the players’ union rejected that idea. For the free agents in the summer of 2016 that worked out well. For the ones in the 2018… not so much.

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[dubcity]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Steph is the worse defender in GSW starting lineup

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Which is like being poorest billionaire on the planet.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Anyways agree to disagree

I think Kyrie plays better on ball defense than Curry when motivated but I think Curry is a better off ball defender. Neither ones strong suit

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i respect the commitment i'll say that

[49UNCFan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

It's funny only OS think steph is a good defender

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