2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

[cima]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Didn’t even realize Pels are a top 5 offense. Still no excuse to lose to them though but with how bad the defense has been, I guess it shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, even without AD


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[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

I'm in agreement here. Being Cleveland's only quasi-stopper defender isn't especially impressive for LeBron. I thought his off-ball defense in the 2016 playoffs was terrific but he had great difficulty containing speedy ball-handlers. He had big problems dealing with screens during that playoff run.

Cleveland's great defensive tactic in the '16 Finals was to flash double Curry and Thompson on the high screens and force them to veer backwards. Golden State never really adjusted.

Certainly the likes of Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen have had stronger defensive playoff runs as perimeter players.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

This ain't Cleveland's slow footed spot up shooters on defense. These are kids with a bunch of young legs/ long arms. The Lakers should be a lot better defensively...he has to set the tone. Bron should be averaging a weak side block a game.

The Rockets game showed how much his defense can have an impact.

LeBron's main issue right is that if one of those young guys miss their rotation he's not going out of his way to try and clean it up. Part of the problem playing into that is Luke also won't keep a center on the floor. This Kuz/Bron last line of defense doesn't work at all, Kuz has no idea when to rotate or help, and LeBron has no desire to rotate to the spots Kuzma should be in.

LeBron's defense is still good when those around him know what they are doing. JaVale, Bron, Ingram, Lonzo line-ups were among the top teams in the league defensively. These Kuz, Hart, KCP, Lance, Rondo rotations while only playing their big men spot minutes results in horrible defensive results.

Can point the finger at everyone on the roster, but LeBron looks noticeably frustrated with how awful those groups are on that end of the floor. I do think his days of cleaning up blown assignments from others are gone. And I do think he's probably frustrated with Luke saying they need to play defense and trotting out those units game after game.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

They definitely need to get back to the rotations they were throwing out before the injuries started. Guys like McGee and Chandler who will sell out and protect the rim is what the team needs...even if it doesnt provide maximum spacing.

It's definitely not just LBJ's fault. The young guys are still adjusting. The entire team definitely has a hand in it. (There's reason we dont see Harden defensive lowlights anymore after adding tough minded wings, or how KD has become a premier shot blocker since joining GSW) I'd just like to see more effort on his part. Hes always been good about rallying the team on offense, would just like to see that on the other side of the ball.

I could be asking too much of 34 year old regular season LBJ but if they are going to make a run a switch has to flip.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Could have made some good loot off of these Warriors/Hornets tonight but I'm going to check it out...

Magic have been playing well, cant let them steal the 8th seed. Not to mention Miami has their roster back now.

[Themayorofawsometown]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

. Not to mention Miami has their roster back now.

JJ and Justise are hurt and missed the last game also we kinda stealth tanking at the moment

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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

I'm in agreement here. Being Cleveland's only quasi-stopper defender isn't especially impressive for LeBron. I thought his off-ball defense in the 2016 playoffs was terrific but he had great difficulty containing speedy ball-handlers. He had big problems dealing with screens during that playoff run.

Cleveland's great defensive tactic in the '16 Finals was to flash double Curry and Thompson on the high screens and force them to veer backwards. Golden State never really adjusted.

Certainly the likes of Jerry West, Walt Frazier, Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen have had stronger defensive playoff runs as perimeter players.

LeBron was masterful those first two years back with the Cavs in the playoffs. Especially in the championship year, and especially given the personnel around him.

He posted defensive ratings in those playoffs of 99 and 100, among the best years for a non-big.. For comparison Jordan on the 96 Bulls, one of the best defensive teams ever, posted a 101.. For LeBron to even have a comparable year to that on a team like Cleveland speaks volumes. Of all players to average 20ppg in a playoff run only 64 times have players topped a 101 defensive rating.. (Bron has 7 years which is more than ANY player on record, Duncan behind him with 6) so both of those years from LeBron would fall into that top 64 year category.

He also posted a career high in block percentage in that playoff run, rating that places in the 88th percentile for ALL players, not just non-bigs. It ranks 9th all time for all non-bigs only behind

Spoiler

AK47, Elton Brand, Julius Erving, Draymond 3 times, Odom, Prince

he had multiple 3 block games in the finals alone, and obviously closed out the series with maybe the greatest block in playoff history. He was top 5 in steals, only behind Dray and Kawhi in blocks overall from non-bigs. Also top 10 in deflections, Kawhi being the only other player that postseason to place just as high in all 3 of those categories.

As for staying in front of quicker players, he was usually able to counter that by forcing them off their shots. Curry 1/12 when defended by LeBron in the finals, committed 11 turnovers. Shots where he was the closest defender in that playoff run were only made at a 32% rate, 13% less than the percentage overall from those players. For comparison top defensive 3-men Paul George and Kawhi are posting a difference of 2% less and 0.3% less this season.

On top of that, his defensive win shares were topped only by Draymond in that run, among the top 100 seasons ever by any player, comparable to most of Pippen/Jordan's seasons. His defensive box +/- for that season ranks in the top 50, one spot ahead of Hakeem in '94, just a tad below Ben Wallace in 2004.

As of today Ben Wallace in 2003 is still the only player in NBA history to post a year with at 3+% steal percentage, 3+% block percentage, and 20+% defensive rebound percentage. And the fact that he capped it off the way he did, with that block, against that team, posting a defensive rating of 101 in the finals alone against a 73 win team that had the second highest offensive rating ever, that's absolutely one of the best defensive post-season runs from anyone.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

JJ and Justise are hurt and missed the last game also we kinda stealth tanking at the moment

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Ah.

I just saw Dragic and DJ were back so I figured yall were fully staffed.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

They definitely need to get back to the rotations they were throwing out before the injuries started. Guys like McGee and Chandler who will sell out and protect the rim is what the team needs...even if it doesnt provide maximum spacing.

It's definitely not just LBJ's fault. The young guys are still adjusting. The entire team definitely has a hand in it. (There's reason we dont see Harden defensive lowlights anymore after adding tough minded wings, or how KD has become a premier shot blocker since joining GSW) I'd just like to see more effort on his part. Hes always been good about rallying the team on offense, would just like to see that on the other side of the ball.

I could be asking too much of 34 year old regular season LBJ but if they are going to make a run a switch has to flip.

I don't know that it's asking too much, but I don't know that he has it in the tank to do it night in and night out for the rest of the year. He actually looks a bit out of shape coming off this injury, conditioning wise, and looked like he had put back on some of that Miami weight this off-season on top of that. We saw it against Houston, I'm sure we'll see it in spots from here on out, but I don't know that we'll see it every night. I don't think he can do that and still do what he does at the other end anymore.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Well then they won’t be playing playoff Basketball.

[Themayorofawsometown]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Ah.

I just saw Dragic and DJ were back so I figured yall were fully staffed.

Having JJ out is better than playing him at this point tho

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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Well then they won’t be playing playoff Basketball.

I don’t see how they make it unless something changes.


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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Playoffs without Lebron, I can see the narratives and takes that would come out.

“WoRsT PlAyOfFs EvER!! This would never happen in any other sport where one of the leagues best players would miss the playoffs”

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Mike Trout laughs at that second take.

[23]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

We have Giannis, Kawhi, Byrie, KD, Steph, Big Game James, CP3, RWB and Playoff P, Joe English, ...

But you know Lakers Nation aint with that stuff that went on in Cleveland

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