2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Really annoying that most Grizz games are blackouts for me...


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[roadman]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Bucks win vs Bulls on the road and sweep the series for the first time since 2000-01 season.

All night without Giannis, George Hill and Sterling Brown.

[jfsolo]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

IMO, if Jeannie lets Magic fire Luke at the end of the year, which I don't think she really wants to do, then I feel like Rob and his time table gets reduced.

[23]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

I’m lost for words.

#ACTIVATED

IMO, if Jeannie lets Magic fire Luke at the end of the year, which I don't think she really wants to do, then I feel like Rob and his time table gets reduced.

Then she'd owe Jim Buss an apology

[ojandpizza]

2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Defensive rating requires many multiplications of certain numbers and is totally bogus.



Defensive win shares requires more absurd calculations of similarly warped digits. If you want to know how good a defender is simply observe him for a full ballgame.



So, you've made me consult my game notes from the 16 Finals. My observations of LBJ's defense:



Game 1 : Turning head too much... too jumpy defending ball fakes... beaten off bounce by Harrison Barnes (who missed layup).



Game 2: Four steals... three deflections... two good pressures. Still turning head... getting burned.. layups allowed to Iggy and Green. Didn't box out Green and allowed layup. Switched lated onto Curry and Thompson and allowed two more buckets. Strayed too far from Green and allowed two three pointers.



Game 3: No real problems here. Hustling and generally belligerent.



Game 4: Again bullying and belligerent. Refs letting him mug Curry. Missed an easy baseline switch and allowed crucial layup to Curry.



Game 5: Super active. Curry had trouble creating space on him.



Game 6: Great team defense here. Hustling... in their shirts. Several good rips and pressures.



Game 7: Terrific off the ball defense. Hustling.



A plus defender but only for his off-the-ball defense or if he is hustling after a block.

On the contrary, defensive rating and defensive win shares CAN be bogus, and if I had used them in a sense to say player A was better defensively than player B in those categories so therefor he was a better defender, meaning my sole reasoning for claiming a player played good defense was based on those 2 stats alone. Then yes, they would be almost completely useless and lacking almost any and all context..

But that’s not why I used them. Defensive rating rewards players on good defensive teams. You can be the best defender alive and post a crappy defensive rating if your team is bad defensively.. part of the reason it’s worth mentioning here is Bron posted those ratings despite not playing with an elite level defensive supporting cast. Worth mentioning weather you put very little or a lot of stock into it. Mentioning it further in relation to other players from the same season, same playoffs, same finals, just illustrates that his defense stood out above theirs.

You post a few spot possessions, but there were an average of 92 possessions per game in that finals finals. You could find a player who was flawless defensively, and still point out scenarios like those. We have full player tracking, and his playoff run looked like:

Game 5,6,7 of the finals - players shot 21.1% against LeBron compared to their usual 47.9% a difference of -26.8
Threes 13.3% compared to 40.4% for -27%
Twos 26.1% compared to 53.3% for -27.2%
Shots less than 6 feet from the rim 20% compared to 62.4% for - 42.4%
Less than 10 feet 22.2% compared to 57.3% for -35.1%
Greater than 15 feet 15.8% compared to 40.5% for -24.7%

On top of the before mentioned Curry being 1/12 and having 11 turnovers.

In the playoffs overall: (21 games)
Players shot -14.1 compared to their norm with him as the defender, next closest Draymond at -8.4%..
-12.6% deference on 3 point shots.
Best rim protection on the Cavs, 43.5%, Bogut for comparison 46.6%.

All that on top of the previously mentioned 1 of only two players (Ben Wallace 2003) to post steals and block percentages above 3, and defensive rebound percentage above 20 in any playoff run. Second highest DBPM ever in any championship run, behind Ben Wallace in 2004. In the last 3 games of the finals he averaged 3 blocks and 3 steals.

It’s not that the defensive rating, and +/-, win-shares, mean anything on their own. But when they are backed by performance it’s not completely bogus and void of context.. that would be kinda like me saying all those advanced stats that paint MJ as the best scorer ever, among the best offensive players overall ever are all bogus.. even though he was, has 10 scoring titles to back those, is the best per possession scorer to ever play, etc.. stats begin mean something when they all paint the same picture and lead to the same spot.

It’s easy to say “just watch them play”, but we all watch them. It doesn’t mean we all take the same things away from the game. I put little stock into him turning his head 3 times and missing 2 back cuts if he was still far and away the best defender on the floor, making the most impact, and virtually every way we can measure backs that up.. just like I don’t care if Jordan missed a couple easy looks he normally made and committed a couple unforced turnovers, or missed a couple open cutting teammates.. odds are despite moments like those he was still the best offensive player on the floor.. this is no different than that analogy.


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[Smallville102001]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Lakers are so up and down and have had bad losses several times this year after a good win. Looking at the lakers next few games it almost wouldn't surprise me if they where to beat Bucks but lose vs Pelicans and Suns lol.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

LMAO that's enough internet for tonight

https://www.facebook.com/bleacherreport/videos/424879748252028/

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

LMAO that's enough internet for tonight



https://www.facebook.com/bleacherrep...4879748252028/

Smh [emoji23]


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[23]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Its dope how the Clippers stopped the game to celebrate Dirk and gave him time to be applauded by the arena before they proceeded with the final inbound with about 9 seconds left.

I hope Cuban pays him back all that money he gave up over the years. Dallas owes him big time.

[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

On the contrary, defensive rating and defensive win shares CAN be bogus, and if I had used them in a sense to say player A was better defensively than player B in those categories so therefor he was a better defender, meaning my sole reasoning for claiming a player played good defense was based on those 2 stats alone. Then yes, they would be almost completely useless and lacking almost any and all context..

Again you are looking at the end results which are, of course, highly successful. I am more interested in LeBron's processes.

Was he far and away the best defender on the floor? In the Finals I would give that title to Draymond Green.

The specific calculation involving Ben Wallace is dubious considering it only measures results since the 73-74 season. Does everything that transpired before simply not count?

[lilteapot]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

How tone deaf can LeBron be.... Lol congratulating himself on an individual accolade after a tough loss... Sends the totally wrong message to your team

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[3304Life]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Its dope how the Clippers stopped the game to celebrate Dirk and gave him time to be applauded by the arena before they proceeded with the final inbound with about 9 seconds left.

I hope Cuban pays him back all that money he gave up over the years. Dallas owes him big time.

Cuban about to turn round to Dirk when he retires and say “Dirk, giving up all that money was incredible. But this is business. You made the wrong move. And in the world of business, people who make wrong moves get eaten. I guess the business world is like a shark tank”. Roll credits, Cuban becomes the new heel of the NBA.

[Master Live 013]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

I love how teams are relishing the opportunity to bury the Lakers playoffs hopes. It used to be that playing against the Warriors was your teams Super Bowl but now that's blasé, instead you teams trying extra hard to deny LeBron. Schadenfreude is real.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

I love how teams are relishing the opportunity to bury the Lakers playoffs hopes. It use to be that playing against the Warriors was your teams Super Bowl but now that's blasé, instead you teams trying extra hard to deny LeBron. Schadenfreude is real.

I mean, it helps when Bron is out there literally handing the other team points.

[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/21 - 2/26 Games Discussion Thread

Cuban about to turn round to Dirk when he retires and say “Dirk, giving up all that money was incredible. But this is business. You made the wrong move. And in the world of business, people who make wrong moves get eaten. I guess the business world is like a shark tank”. Roll credits, Cuban becomes the new heel of the NBA.

Nowitzki really should have retired at the end of the 15-16 season. His shuffling movements are painful to watch.

Adam Silver erred in selecting Nowitzki (and Wade too) as an honorary All Star however. His performance is simply not commensurate with All Star status. If the fans really wanted to "say goodbye" to him they have had many regular games already and more to come.

Dirk has still indicated that he may return next season. What is Silver to do then? Award him with another 'farewell' selection?

According to Basketball Reference they have 'counted' Nowitzki and Wade's undeserved All Star elections. Nowitzki is now cheaply tied with MJ and Jerry West in this category and has surpassed John Havlicek and Wilt Chamberlain.
Similarly, Wade now has more All Star selections than Bill Russell.