2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

And right now we have maybe three or four superstars. The NBA isn’t very strong right now and a lot of the talent pool is concentrated onto one team. I’m not arguing that today’s NBA is stronger, but the early 2000s were a weak point.

-With the curtailing of hand-checking starting in the 04-05 season the league's emphasis shifted from power/position to speed/length.

-Fundamentals have continued to break down since high schoolers were allowed to enter the NBA in mass in the mid 90s. These flawed players became role models for today's guys.

-The high number of successful European players has turned the game even more finessy and has made it fashionable to abandon learning the basics of post play.

-Mike D'Antoni's "seven seconds or less" attacks of the mid 00s have negatively impacted offensive basketball. The tried and true axiom of making the opposing defense play hard for 20 seconds no longer exists.

-Three balls are now launched too often and by the wrong players.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

The NBA was stronger then than it is now.

Lord no, top level talent is deeper now, top tier teams are better now, you need 2-3 stars to have a shot at winning again.. Not even close in comparison IMO.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

-With the curtailing of hand-checking starting in the 04-05 season the league's emphasis shifted from power/position to speed/length.

-Fundamentals have continued to break down since high schoolers were allowed to enter the NBA in mass in the mid 90s. These flawed players became role models for today's guys.

-The high number of successful European players has turned the game even more finessy and has made it fashionable to abandon learning the basics of post play.

-Mike D'Antoni's "seven seconds or less" attacks of the mid 00s have negatively impacted offensive basketball. The tried and true axiom of making the opposing defense play hard for 20 seconds no longer exists.

-Three balls are now launched too often and by the wrong players.

To be 100% rational here, every one of these examples is an example based off the idea of how you want basketball to be played and not a direct reflection of what the product actually is. You don't like a lot of ways the game has changed, and you have 100% right to that opinion, I don't like every way the game has changed either most here probably don't, that doesn't by default make it worse.

[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Lord no, top level talent is deeper now, top tier teams are better now, you need 2-3 stars to have a shot at winning again.. Not even close in comparison IMO.

-No one playing at this very moment approaches the all around dominance of Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Jason Kidd.

-The Shaq/Kobe Lakers and Duncan's Spurs would easily beat any of the top tier teams playing right now in a seven game series.

-You have always needed multiple superstars to win a Title in the NBA. Unless you have a dreadnaught big man like Hakeem or Duncan.

[3304Life]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Those Lakers and Spurs aren’t beating these Warriors.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Those Lakers and Spurs aren’t beating these Warriors.

Spurs would make them work though.

We just seen a Mike D’antoni with a 35 y/o CP3 and James Harden take the Warriors 7 games. I wouldn’t put it past the Spurs to do the same with Pop(the Pop on those teams, not current Pop).

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

-No one playing at this very moment approaches the all around dominance of Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Jason Kidd.

-The Shaq/Kobe Lakers and Duncan's Spurs would easily beat any of the top tier teams playing right now in a seven game series.

-You have always needed multiple superstars to win a Title in the NBA. Unless you have a dreadnaught big man like Hakeem or Duncan.

Those Lakers and Spurs aren’t beating these Warriors.

I mean we don't know who would win, or which style hurts either side more. But even if everyone would come to agreement and say that the Lakers and/or Spurs would hands down beat GS.. That's two teams out of 30 teams and over 300 players. Nobody in their right might is questioning those two teams and their legitimacy, in today's NBA or any version of the NBA.

it's a questioning the league as a whole. Chris Webber, Peja, J O'Neal, 37 year old Karl Malone.. Those guys aren't stepping in today's league and topping LeBron, Durant, Curry, Embiid in the MVP race like they could finish top 5 then. Iverson's Sixers are not a contender, Vince's Raptors are not a contender, a 49 win Nets team starting Todd McCullough, Kerry Kittles, and Keith Van-Horn would not make the finals today, any team with Antoine Walker as their 2nd best player would not be a contender. A team with Jalen Rose as it's best all around player is not making the finals, even going a couple years down LeBron's 2007 Cavs would not make the finals.

[3304Life]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Spurs would make them work though.

We just seen a Mike D’antoni with a 35 y/o CP3 and James Harden take the Warriors 7 games. I wouldn’t put it past the Spurs to do the same with Pop(the Pop on those teams, not current Pop).

I think the Spurs would give them a harder time than the Lakers would, definitely. I still think the Warriors as currently constructed are too skilled of a team to realistically be stopped. Not to mention they’ve got a brick wall of a big man now that would rival Shaq if it was the Lakers.

Timmy and Admiral would have Draymond and Boogie fouled out and missing games in a 7 game series through tecs though.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

I think the Spurs would give them a harder time than the Lakers would, definitely. I still think the Warriors as currently constructed are too skilled of a team to realistically be stopped. Not to mention they’ve got a brick wall of a big man now that would rival Shaq if it was the Lakers.

Timmy and Admiral would have Draymond and Boogie fouled out and missing games in a 7 game series through tecs though.

Dray and Boogie aren’t ready for Deal With It Duncan.

Now if the Warriors make a call to the league about bringing back Joey Crawford, then I’d take the Warriors easy.

[3304Life]

2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

And OJ’s point there is exactly what I’m saying. Top level, the early 2000s had some of the most dominant teams we’ve seen. But below that the league was all over the place.

And we need to look at the word “fundamentals” because to me that’s a fluid term. Fundamentals shift with the evolution of the game. Solid post play and ball movement might get you some success today, but if you’re attempting 15 three a game, you’re not winning anything. The Warriors, Spurs and Pacers play probably the most fundamentally sound basketball evolved to adapt to what you need in the NBA today. The three point shot is a fundamental part of basketball, it’s been in the game for four decades and has only now been utilized to the extent it should be. The Rockets took it to far and forgot everything else and they died by it as much as they lived last season.

For me, right now, the way NBA basketball is being played is about as perfect as it will ever get. For all the talk of the NBA being a copycat league I think play is varied enough across the league. You have teams and players whose games are centered around slashing, some around the mid range, some around threes. We have point big men, elite rebounding guards, defenders who maintain an elite level even with all the rules favoring the offense. I said earlier that we have three or four superstars in the league but I think put this talent pool up against the early 2000s and there would be a lot more.

[areobee401]

2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Morris has been much worse than just bad of late. Everyone knew he wasn't going to shoot this well for the entire season and when that goes out his game can look really ugly. Much better to deal with those ups and downs as a 6th man of the bench guy. Semi is only good if you need a different look like on Giannis for example or someone else because he is a good defender 1 on 1 otherwise he stinks. Like cmon. Like I know these last 3 games from Hayward have been dreadful which stinks because he was trending up before the break but not at that level.

Morris for all his recent struggles still gives you more then Hayward at this point. And again, please tell me what Hayward does better than Ojeleye right now?

Give me the more athletic player and better defender since Hayward brings nothing to the table. We have a 60+ game sample size as proof on this. If he isn’t scoring, what’s the point of him eating up vulnerable minutes?

He could retain some of his past form next year, maybe...

But right now the time of treating Hayward like some charity case and him seeing 20+ minutes a night has to end.

[AlexBrady]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

Those Lakers and Spurs aren’t beating these Warriors.

They certainly would. Shaquille O'Neal would explode for 35 point outings while fouling out DeMarcus Cousins and Kevon Looney. There is just no answer for him. How would the Warriors come with their doubles? Shaq was a willing passer though and the Lakers field a lot of clutch shooters.

A young Kobe would torch Thompson's (admittedly plus) defense and has the legs to chase him through a maze of screens. Thompson's handle is sub-par and if he tried to take Kobe man to man he would be mostly stifled.

Stephen Curry runs rings around Fisher but his anticipation would enable him to draw a charge and play good position. Fisher's clutch spot shooting was legendary.
In the clutch, Kobe has the lateral movement to match up with Curry and give him big problems.

Durant is an all time great point maker but Fox was a legitimate stopper. It is unlikely KD would dominate this matchup.

Horace Grant might not play much because his post up defense would be mostly useless. He was still a good rebounder. Edge to Draymond Green here.

The triangle would slow the pace and allow the Lakers to control the action. The Lakers are much slower than Golden State but because of Shaq's dominating presence it likely wouldn't matter.

Lakers win in six games.


The Spurs would present Tim Duncan as an unanswerable problem. His low post maneuverings were varied and explosive circa 2003. His mid-range jumpers were good enough to lure defenders closely. Had the poise to scan the floor when being doubled and deliver. He was the best defensive rotator in all of creation and a dominating rebounder. Does Golden State double on his first dribble or try to seal him baseline? TD would thoroughly dominate the action.

In the plus column for Golden State, Stephen Curry would abuse a young Tony Parker.

Klay Thompson would outscore Stephen Jackson and would easily discombobulate SJ's inferior handle.

The problem for Golden State would be Bruce Bowen. He was a powerful sticky defender who Kevin Durant wouldn't be able to go wild against. KD notoriously struggles (relatively speaking of course) against strong yet quick-footed defenders. And when the Warriors are scrambling their inside out rotations after responding to Duncan there would be Bowen to hit three point balls.

When paired with Duncan, Malik Rose at power forward was a highly underrated player. He would bang with Draymond Green, stick mid-range jumpers, and pound both boards. Draymond Green doesn't have as big of an edge as you think here.

Off the bench, Manu Ginobli was young and very mistake prone but capable of injecting juice into a ballgame.

The Spurs discipline would allow them to control the pace of play. They play better more consistent defense than Golden State is capable of. Duncan and Rose would play volleyball on the boards.

Spurs win a seven game series in six.

[Majingir]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

lol, never realized this but Suns have already been officially eliminated from playoffs. I wonder if it's ever happened before in February?

And I think Bucks can clinch a playoff spot tomorrow.

[Themayorofawsometown]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

-No one playing at this very moment approaches the all around dominance of Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Jason Kidd.
.

LeBron still exists lol

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/26 - 3/4 Games Discussion Thread

They certainly would. Shaquille O'Neal would explode for 35 point outings while fouling out DeMarcus Cousins and Kevon Looney. There is just no answer for him. How would the Warriors come with their doubles? Shaq was a willing passer though and the Lakers field a lot of clutch shooters.

A young Kobe would torch Thompson's (admittedly plus) defense and has the legs to chase him through a maze of screens. Thompson's handle is sub-par and if he tried to take Kobe man to man he would be mostly stifled.

Stephen Curry runs rings around Fisher but his anticipation would enable him to draw a charge and play good position. Fisher's clutch spot shooting was legendary.
In the clutch, Kobe has the lateral movement to match up with Curry and give him big problems.

Durant is an all time great point maker but Fox was a legitimate stopper. It is unlikely KD would dominate this matchup.

Horace Grant might not play much because his post up defense would be mostly useless. He was still a good rebounder. Edge to Draymond Green here.

The triangle would slow the pace and allow the Lakers to control the action. The Lakers are much slower than Golden State but because of Shaq's dominating presence it likely wouldn't matter.

Lakers win in six games.
[/B]

Those Lakers teams struggled with any team that could pull their defense away from the rim, pull Shaq out of the paint, and shoot from the outside, and push the tempo, and get passing from their bigs.. GS does all of that at an all time level.

Peja and Hedo killed Rick Fox.. I think KD will be just fine.

Rip Hamilton and Allen Iverson gave them fits off ball, having Curry and Klay moving like that at the same time with another 30 point scorer on the floor presents big problems for that Lakers group.

Kobe couldn't even contain Antonio Daniels, Mike Bibby, or Chauncey Billups..

Kobe at 21, 22, wasn't torching anyone at a consistent level just yet. He had his moments, and against good defenders.. But when players had length and enough speed to prevent blow-bys he struggled. Reggie Miller and Tayshaun Prince both shut him down.

Lakers lone shot is could Shaq be so dominant that it negated the 3's and counter the fact that he can't defend Boogie when he goes high, can't matchup if they go small, and he and Grant would be sitting dunks on high ball screens... Is he so dominant against them that it completely nukes their ability to ever push the tempo.. Because otherwise literally every other advantage is in GS's favor.