Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[illwill10]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

We’re gonna see Instagram stories and articles from all the casual NBA media outlets this summer showing Simmons in a private workout hitting 3s talking about how he’s finally working on his game after the disappointment in the playoffs, casual fans will get excited and then he’s gonna start next season scoring 10 points on 3/7 from the field and 4/8 from the line.


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Well that is every offseason for Ben lol. We always see the offseason Instagram videos of Ben taking threes, making FTs, etc then see none of that in game. He takes those shots in private runs, but not in NBA games.

He needs go to an offense that doesn't have an emphasis on Post ups. He needs a great perimeter scorer alongside him

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Wanting to make more Ben jokes, but looking on the horizon at that Randle deal
IMG_0806.JPG

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Always found it wild that we use 4-7 game playoff sets to either validate/invalidate a player’s entire performance for a whole year.

I get that you want your best players to step up in the postseason and help the team out as expected. But you would think Ben Simmons is some rotational NBA player the way the takes are coming with him, lol. And I get it, that’s how it works in the NBA and with its fans/folks that cover it.

I think Ben will still be ok and can still be a key piece on a championship level team. Can he be your main guy on that type of team? No, and that’s ok, everyone doesn’t have to be to prove how good they are. But he’s still a starter level player on that team that can play a significant role.

[cima]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Always found it wild that we use 4-7 game playoff sets to either validate/invalidate a player’s entire performance for a whole year.

I get that you want your best players to step up in the postseason and help the team out as expected. But you would think Ben Simmons is some rotational NBA player the way the takes are coming with him, lol. And I get it, that’s how it works in the NBA and with its fans/folks that cover it.

I think Ben will still be ok and can still be a key piece on a championship level team. Can he be your main guy on that type of team? No, and that’s ok, everyone doesn’t have to be to prove how good they are. But he’s still a starter level player on that team that can play a significant role.

That's the problem though, doesn't he make max money? Too much money is being handed out to these one-way players. He'd be an absolute gem at the right price but I'm not throwing max dollars at a guy that can't shoot AT ALL or make even a Shaq-like % of FTs when it matters most.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

The questions he was getting asked were ridiculous, I thought he handled himself well in the post game interview. Chuck was getting on someone for not facing the music after a loss not that long ago but you see people asking him right after a loss “do you want to remain in Philly” and I’m like nah I’d take the fine too.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

https://twitter.com/SlimSleepr/status/1406612735840997389

[Vni]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Always found it wild that we use 4-7 game playoff sets to either validate/invalidate a player’s entire performance for a whole year.

I get that you want your best players to step up in the postseason and help the team out as expected. But you would think Ben Simmons is some rotational NBA player the way the takes are coming with him, lol. And I get it, that’s how it works in the NBA and with its fans/folks that cover it.

I think Ben will still be ok and can still be a key piece on a championship level team. Can he be your main guy on that type of team? No, and that’s ok, everyone doesn’t have to be to prove how good they are. But he’s still a starter level player on that team that can play a significant role.

Simmons is good just not 40mil per good.

[illwill10]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Always found it wild that we use 4-7 game playoff sets to either validate/invalidate a player’s entire performance for a whole year.

I get that you want your best players to step up in the postseason and help the team out as expected. But you would think Ben Simmons is some rotational NBA player the way the takes are coming with him, lol. And I get it, that’s how it works in the NBA and with its fans/folks that cover it.

I think Ben will still be ok and can still be a key piece on a championship level team. Can he be your main guy on that type of team? No, and that’s ok, everyone doesn’t have to be to prove how good they are. But he’s still a starter level player on that team that can play a significant role.

That is how it is for the NBA. It feels like it's based on Contract and playoff success. Nothing else matters to how players are judged nowadays. Yeah, you want to players to perform when it matters the most, but it shouldn't discredit their season in whole. Ben could be a good player on a winning team. I just don't think he is a great fit. He needs to feel like he is ""man". Collins had a good series, but still don't want to pay him 20+ million
.
Even someone like Tobias should have gotten more respect this year. He had a very solid year. He missed like 5-6 very good looks that he normally makes, that would've changes the outcome of the game. He at least should get more value.

[ehh]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

My main issue with Doc this year was the rotations. So many times, he would put out lineups that everyone knew didn't fit together. You can't put Ben-Howard-Matisse/Hill together on the floor at once. But, I put that on the bench itself. They have to improve the bench.

They were bad. Hell, if Doc doesn't start Green on Trae in Game 1 Philly probably wins the series, but it's easy to second guess everything in a tight loss in a seven-game series. The games he went all-bench for a few minutes. You can't do that stuff in the playoffs.

Doc is exactly who I think he is. He's a good coach, not a great coach, and not a great strategist. He is certainly a weird pairing with Morey and given Morey inherited him it wouldn't surprise me if he's gone this summer. You can't ignore his history in the playoffs but a lot of stuff falls on players. He's had injuries at terrible times to Blake, CP3, KG, Perkins (don't laugh, he was huge at keeping Gasol/Bynum off the offensive glass in the '10 Finals).

LAC last year was bad. This loss is bad, especially since ATL didn't even play that well, but what on earth is any coach doing with Simmons?



When a $35m player decides he wants to be a 7' Tony Allen with a dash of playmaking, you've got problems. He suffers from the same issue as a lot of secondary/tertiary players: can you fit and contribute off the ball in a smaller role? Simmons is a great passer, but it's not like he's Trae/Luka/LeBron/Dame/whomever where you run a thousand PnRs a game and that's the foundation of your offense. This isn't reactionary, we've seen it through several playoffs. In a halfcourt game in the playoffs, Simmons struggles to contribute. He was often a screener in this series, in the short corner. Now last night he's so shook he's passing up open dunks because he sees Trae out of the corner of his eye.

The reality is Simmons is probably a 4th piece to a championship team. He's going to be 25 this summer; he's still young, but the clock is ticking on him putting it all together and given that he hasn't improved all that much since entering the league I have my doubts.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Simmons is good just not 40mil per good.

A lot of players aren’t worth their salary at their current production. If we’re being real, maybe about 85% of the league is overpaid, 10% of that are guys that aren’t paid “correctly”(IE end of the bench players)and the other 5% are the elite players who are worth their salary and then some(Lebron, Steph, KD,)

But we have this weird infatuation with invalidating a player based on what they did in a 7 games series. Doesn’t matter if they were great during the season and did everything right, if they have a bad series in the playoffs, “Oh, he’s a scrub, he’s not that good, he doesn’t take the game serious”, etc, etc.

Idk

Edit: Lemme clarify that I’m also speaking in general and not just about Ben.

[Vni]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

A lot of players aren’t worth their salary at their current production. If we’re being real, maybe about 85% of the league is overpaid, 10% of that are guys that aren’t paid “correctly”(IE end of the bench players)and the other 5% are the elite players who are worth their salary and then some(Lebron, Steph, KD,)

But we have this weird infatuation with invalidating a player based on what they did in a 7 games series. Doesn’t matter if they were great during the season and did everything right, if they have a bad series in the playoffs, “Oh, he’s a scrub, he’s not that good, he doesn’t take the game serious”, etc, etc.

Idk

It's not like Simmons had an off series or an off shooting game. That's pretty much who he is right now and when the games become more half court oriented in the playoffs he struggle to be impactful. I woudn't want to pay franchise players type of money to a guy who isn't a franchise player.

[Vni]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

But I'am sure a lot of teams will trade for him if he becomes available.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

A lot of it is just recency bias. We see it the other way around with someone like Tyler Herro lighting up a playoff series and being regarded as someone who shouldn't be traded for an MVP-caliber player lol.

The pressure of the playoffs does expose something about players that the regular season doesn't. However, imo it shouldn't be so overemphasized that it negates the player's overall improvement or production during the season.

I still believe in Julius Randle

[ehh]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

But we have this weird infatuation with invalidating a player based on what they did in a 7 games series. Doesn’t matter if they were great during the season and did everything right, if they have a bad series in the playoffs, “Oh, he’s a scrub, he’s not that good, he doesn’t take the game serious”, etc, etc.

Idk

It's harsh but it's the nature of the beast. You're evaluating guys and paying them to win championships. I don't particularly care how good they look in January against Sacramento. It's especially harsh after one bad series, or for young players, but if guys develop a pattern of such performances over a few years then it's fair game.

[illwill10]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

They were bad. Hell, if Doc doesn't start Green on Trae in Game 1 Philly probably wins the series, but it's easy to second guess everything in a tight loss in a seven-game series. The games he went all-bench for a few minutes. You can't do that stuff in the playoffs.

Doc is exactly who I think he is. He's a good coach, not a great coach, and not a great strategist. He is certainly a weird pairing with Morey and given Morey inherited him it wouldn't surprise me if he's gone this summer. You can't ignore his history in the playoffs but a lot of stuff falls on players. He's had injuries at terrible times to Blake, CP3, KG, Perkins (don't laugh, he was huge at keeping Gasol/Bynum off the offensive glass in the '10 Finals).

LAC last year was bad. This loss is bad, especially since ATL didn't even play that well, but what on earth is any coach doing with Simmons?



When a $35m player decides he wants to be a 7' Tony Allen with a dash of playmaking, you've got problems. He suffers from the same issue as a lot of secondary/tertiary players: can you fit and contribute off the ball in a smaller role? Simmons is a great passer, but it's not like he's Trae/Luka/LeBron/Dame/whomever where you run a thousand PnRs a game and that's the foundation of your offense. This isn't reactionary, we've seen it through several playoffs. In a halfcourt game in the playoffs, Simmons struggles to contribute. He was often a screener in this series, in the short corner. Now last night he's so shook he's passing up open dunks because he sees Trae out of the corner of his eye.

The reality is Simmons is probably a 4th piece to a championship team. He's going to be 25 this summer; he's still young, but the clock is ticking on him putting it all together and given that he hasn't improved all that much since entering the league I have my doubts.

I agree.

It's not like Atlanta shot lights out this series. Outside of game 1, Atlanta has shot poorly. And outside of some good performances from Huerter and Collins, it's not like anyone else beat you. They had a 18 point lead and 26 point leads in games 4 & 5 and loss both. Trae picked apart Joel in PNR. They had that solved in game 2 and 3, but fell apart. I like Howard and thought he was the best backup in the Joel era. But, I knew you can't play him in most playoff series. I like Seth and he exceeded my expectations, but I'm putting him at the 6th man next year. I rather have him get 30 minutes off the bench. Doc had too much faith in Shake going into the season because of the bubble game he had against him.
Ben hasn't really improved much since he came into the league. With him, it's all mental. He has the potential, just not the mindset.

I would blow it up. I would find ways to trade Ben and Tobias. Tobias did improve this year. But he isn't a #2 on a title team. He's mostly going to give you a quiet efficient 20-24 points on near 50-40-90 numbers or a bad 20 points on nearly 20 shots. With his contract, that isn't enough. He did improve his value, but not sure what you can get. I still would like a Buddy Hield for him. I would sign Lowry for a reasonable contract. Let Danny, Dwight, Scott, Furkan walk. Use Hill's expiring deal as a trade piece. I'm all for using first round picks in deals since they will be late round picks.

I have faith in Morey. If he can get off of the Horford contract and swap Richardson for Curry, he can get off Ben and Tobias. That would open so much financially in the future