10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

It’s about perception and nowadays that **** plays a role even though us Fans aren’t seeing it on a regular basis. The same with making sure key relationships are good with the important players. You don’t want to create unnecessary issues if you can control it, especially on a team with championship ambitions.

Anyway, much better start for the Nets tonight.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Spoilering this in case people want to skip over this whole discussion again

Spoiler

A few things:

1. This happens every year and this is a typical situation. How someone plays/looks will always be subjective especially if a part of that is based on body language.

2. I think there should be some room for context/nuance and less hyperbole here in regards to the whole “first 3 years” part. Because from the time he got drafted, it was always known that he was going to be a project(most raw bigs coming into the league are, historically speaking)but by about Year 3, if everything goes according to plan/development, then we would see why Phoenix selected him #1(although with Luka starting out the way he did, there were/are always going to be people that said they still made the wrong pick). I can elaborate more on this but the last thing I want to do is derail this whole thread with more pages of Ayton Game by Game breakdowns over the last 3 years by Pack and OJ.

3.
That’s what all teams do anyway, right?

4. MY position is and has always been that unless you’re planning on trading him and getting an upgrade over him or anywhere else on the team, which they’re not because they want to take advantage of the even smaller window they have CP3 there and Booker, before it’s time to talk contract #2 with him and hopefully get his commitment.

We already know what type of offer sheet he’s most likely going to get and you’re(Suns)are going to match it, which is why I said it was silly. Because again, they’re gaining nothing from doing that. And even if they sign him to a max deal and he doesn’t perform up to it, IT DOESNT STOP THEM FROM TRADING HIM IF HES NOT PLAYING UP TO THE DEAL. Max contracts can and have gotten moved.

My fault, I forget when they match contracts in RFA, they’re always 4 year deals since they’re coming from opposing teams so basically they “fortunately” for them, they would only have to possibly pay him for 4 years instead of a full 5. Better hope no other team throws no creative offer sheet at him.

5. Based on what you wrote, do you now see why I said it was odd? Because based on how he’s looked to YOU over the “last 3 years”, there was nothing he could do in the first few games of this season to change your stance anyway. It was always going to take most of the season and playoffs, if they get there, for him to convince you otherwise and believe that Phoenix should pay him.

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Spoiler

Full disclosure beforehand I wouldn’t at all be against him getting the max, I wouldn’t have blamed them at all if he would have been offered that. I can just also see the other side as well.. and it’s not just how I feel about him or my perception, obviously Phoenix feels the same. They tossed out money like crazy this off-season, I don’t think this was them just all the sudden taking the cheap way out. They have reservations on this guy being worth substantively more money than other guys producing at the exact same level.

As far as the context, I’m not ignoring that he was a project, the context for my argument is that circumstance changed. If they didn’t land Chris Paul and overachieve to a finals run they would have already maxed him. He’s a top pick, was flirting with 20 and 10 in year two, showed big flashes in big playoff games, if the context of their current situation didn’t exist he would already have his money.

Right now his progress is delayed, probably for as long as they see themselves trying to win a chip with this group. You’re saying max a guy who’s at best the 3rd guy but in that role he’s mostly a rim runner. A guy who’s likely not going to offer a ton more than JaVale on a per minute level for their current needs, gets benched often to play Saric small ball, and who’s probably less progressed than someone like Capela or Allen or Sabonis, etc for the type of player they need/want him to be yet pay him tons more money.

I honestly wouldn’t be against shopping him now. There are teams out there who can give him more touches and therefor want to pay him. A team like the Knicks might show interest, Pelicans, Phoenix can get what they need from him at that spot plus more for cheaper. And I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion that at the end of the year he’ll for sure get a max if he doesn’t show improvements. That’s not really the going rate for under star level bigs right now.

As for my timing of my post, my thing was I just expected him to come out and prove he was worth that money and hasn’t showcased that. So yes to answer your question had he done that I would feel differently already to some extent because he’s shown enough “flashes” for us to know it’s in him. I said before hand that I could understand their side, he had a chance to prove that right or wrong and thus far he’s only made their decision look more justifiable.

[jeebs9]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Jabari Parker back on the Celtics?

[ojandpizza]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

. Ayton is a former number 1 pick who just played a big part in getting his team to the finals

Chris Paul played a big part in getting them to the finals… let’s be realistic at least, he had some great moments but all they use him for now is to play off Paul. They aren’t naive enough to believe that having a guy like Capela instead of Ayton would have ruined their finals chances. He’s not some irreplaceable asset they just have to retain to stay relevant.

As it currently stands Ayton’s value peaks as a 3rdish guy for them. Some nights probably even less value than that based on Bridges and Crowder’s defense. Their best case scenario for him this year was to keep developing that rim runner game playing off CP3, and to get better defensively. Basically turn into Capela, Allen, etc. Guys who aren’t paid as number 1 option max level guys.

They’ve taken care of Booker, CP3, Bridges, they don’t need to just overpay every single player across the board to show “loyalty” when the production, role, team value doesn’t warrant it. Ayton has all year long to show them he can develop into the perfect irreplaceable 3rd option, or be so good that he commands an even bigger role than that. Thus far he has not done either of those things so overpaying him early when they might get him for cheaper later is just a bad move for the sake of “image” imo. Especially when him reaching that seems somewhat motor driven, who’s to say he reaches that if he no longer has to worry about earning his max.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

My man gonna cite Crowder's defense but lecture us about Ayton not being irreplaceable. We can move on.

Anyway, Lonzo has knocked down 4 three pointers in the first half against Toronto so far. He's a prime example of putting in the work to get better at something that was a weakness in his game. Would love to see Ben do the same for his game.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

KD almost claimed a victim right there

[cima]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

What's with Chicago not having Lonzo rebound the ball? My SGP is totally gonna hit other than him needing 5 rebounds. At half-time he has 0.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

My man gonna cite Crowder's defense but lecture us about Ayton not being irreplaceable. We can move on.

Wut [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I didn’t say Crowder wasn’t also replaceable or even try to compare them in that sense.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Man I was never even worried about Lonzo’s jumper. He grew up shooting tons of threes in HS, college, and early in the NBA. It was never going to be a confidence or uncomfortable adjustment for him. Fix the form and boom.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Jeebs let's talk about a certain Charlotte player[emoji848]

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[Majingir]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Good. Never liked him, or those Jazz teams lol.

Sucks for him that Bron is going to hit 40 and 10 lol


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That sounds like a weird stat.

Paul is the first to hit 20,000 points + 10,000 assists, but LeBron will be the first to 30,000 points + 10,000 assists...in the very same season.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Damn plumlee just keeps getting dunked on. This time Robert Williams. [emoji23]

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[DamnYanks2]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Huge three by lamelo.

Tatum brought it tonight.

Charlotte has a chance to end it[emoji102] or not.

OT!!



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[ojandpizza]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Duarte gonna sneak around and get ROY..


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[DamnYanks2]

Re: 10/19 - 11/1 Games Discussion Thread

Brown just postered Bridges[emoji1]

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