NBA Off Topic Thread

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Wrong thread my bad

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Didn’t want to clog up the Draft thread with random convo so I’ll post it here:

Am I the only one who finds the concept of ceiling(in regards to discussing prospects)kinda weird?

Especially when you consider how a player develops is partly based on things that you can’t measure at all?

I would say yes and no.

I don't fault anybody for trying to figure out what the best case scenario might be before hand. How/if he ever reaches that is another thing. Obviously how a player actually develops can never be measured, but I think every team needs to have some ballpark idea of best case and worse case scenarios.. Ceiling and a floor.

If I player outperforms that ceiling then great, that's a bonus if he's better than they ever imagined. If he performs well under that, well that's kinda why it was the "ceiling" in the first place. That's almost what was expected.

But yes, the whole process can definitely be weird.

But I do think the fans tend to make it weirder than what the ceilings, comps, etc are actually there for. I think scouts largely just want something to compare against and a ballpark idea of somebody's potential. Fans take it far too literal. Compare Joel Embidd to Hakeem and people got up in arms because in their head they are picturing final form, league MVP, NBA champ, Hakeem. Not draft night Hakeem, and seeing Embiid for his flaws at 19 not Embiid for what he could become. Fast forward to now and Embiid has had some of the best seasons ever for a center, he's the league MVP. No their games definitely aren't identical at all, but the potential for Embiid to be a great scorer with polished touch and footwork, along with being an All-Defense guy have been fulfilled.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

That and also how overboard when it comes to assigning player comps to prospects and how that can dictate how a player slides or rises.

Same thing with “Floor”, lol

We’re real quick to say that high athleticism and a developed NBA body = High Ceiling over guys with high skill and NBA Level traits.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I would say yes and no.

I don't fault anybody for trying to figure out what the best case scenario might be before hand. How/if he ever reaches that is another thing. Obviously how a player actually develops can never be measured, but I think every team needs to have some ballpark idea of best case and worse case scenarios.. Ceiling and a floor.

If I player outperforms that ceiling then great, that's a bonus if he's better than they ever imagined. If he performs well under that, well that's kinda why it was the "ceiling" in the first place. That's almost what was expected.

But yes, the whole process can definitely be weird.

But I do think the fans tend to make it weirder than what the ceilings, comps, etc are actually there for. I think scouts largely just want something to compare against and a ballpark idea of somebody's potential. Fans take it far too literal. Compare Joel Embidd to Hakeem and people got up in arms because in their head they are picturing final form, league MVP, NBA champ, Hakeem. Not draft night Hakeem, and seeing Embiid for his flaws at 19 not Embiid for what he could become. Fast forward to now and Embiid has had some of the best seasons ever for a center, he's the league MVP. No their games definitely aren't identical at all, but the potential for Embiid to be a great scorer with polished touch and footwork, along with being an All-Defense guy have been fulfilled.

I can agree with that. I do think that is the problem with ceiling/floor/comps. Some fans take that as the end result rather than what the ball park is for a player. I went to a random mock draft from 2018. It had Kevin Knox comp as Paul George and Mikal Bridges comp as Otto Porter lol. If I'm looking at a player comp, I just thinking that's the kind of player he can be if everything goes right, not who the player is going to be.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Same thing with “Floor”, lol

We’re real quick to say that high athleticism and a developed NBA body = High Ceiling over guys with high skill and NBA Level traits.

Well isn't that ’s how Toronto drafts lol.

Also age coming into the draft. I get it in certain situations. But if a prospect if comes out as a JR or SR, he automatically has a lower ceiling than a Freshman. You look at someone like Jarrett Culver who was seen as a high ceiling guy coming out as a Sophomore. But, look at Matisse Thybulle who was a 4 year player and a PAC 12 DPOY, but had a lower ceiling because he was a 4 year player.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Same thing with “Floor”, lol

We’re real quick to say that high athleticism and a developed NBA body = High Ceiling over guys with high skill and NBA Level traits.

This has been an annoyance pretty much since I've been alive. Teams have made a lot of mistakes wasting high picks on long+athletic over the years.

I will say though typically for the best of the best that is true, but it's also what a majority of the busts are as well. I think most scouts know they are taking that gamble though, but that's also why they try to find at least a ballpark idea of a ceiling and a floor too, and past/current NBA examples for whatever archetype that player appears to be.

But for most picks where we even do this (nobody is taking deep dives into ceiling/floor debates for 2nd round picks) I think most of those teams would rather take the gamble on getting the next Giannis knowing it might be the next Jonathan Bender, above using a lottery pick to draft the next Shane Battier knowing his skills and traits will fit long-term but he's a 2nd round talent.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Paolo made a choice

https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/37909606/sources-paolo-banchero-play-united-states-fibas

I didn't realize Joel Embiid was in play. He can play for Team France or Team USA. That's crazy!

[702]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Paolo made a choice

https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/37909606/sources-paolo-banchero-play-united-states-fibas

I didn't realize Joel Embiid was in play. He can play for Team France or Team USA. That's crazy!

Might get me hate but this Embiid stuff is silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but he lived in Cameroon until he was 15 and he's deciding between USA and France? What? Sure, Cameroon probably sucks. But if you're Cameroonian, play for Cameroon! Play for your country, build up the program, inspire your people. If they WERE good, I don't see him going to play for France instead. It's a national tournament, this free agency stuff is nonsense.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Might get me hate but this Embiid stuff is silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but he lived in Cameroon until he was 15 and he's deciding between USA and France? What? Sure, Cameroon probably sucks. But if you're Cameroonian, play for Cameroon! Play for your country, build up the program, inspire your people. If they WERE good, I don't see him going to play for France instead. It's a national tournament, this free agency stuff is nonsense.

Yeah, I rather him and Siakam both play for Cameroon.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Might get me hate but this Embiid stuff is silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but he lived in Cameroon until he was 15 and he's deciding between USA and France? What? Sure, Cameroon probably sucks. But if you're Cameroonian, play for Cameroon! Play for your country, build up the program, inspire your people. If they WERE good, I don't see him going to play for France instead. It's a national tournament, this free agency stuff is nonsense.

Yeah, I rather him and Siakam both play for Cameroon.

So I found this on Wikipedia


Embiid is eligible to compete for*Cameroon national basketball team.[140]*On 7 February 2017, Embiid was named to the preliminary team to compete in the*2017 FIBA AfroBasket*in the*Republic of Congo,[141]*with the group qualifier taking place in March, during the NBA regular season. Fellow*Cameroon-born*NBA*player*Luc Mbah a Moute*has voiced his opinion on Embiid representing his country saying, "It would be great for our team, our country and Joel".[142]*Embiid ultimately did not compete for Cameroon at AfroBasket 2017.[143]

In July 2022, Embiid was granted citizenship by France as "a foreigner [...] whose naturalization is of exceptional interest".[144][145]*Later in September, he also became a*U.S. citizen.[146]

September, he also became a*U.S. citizen.



So it looks like it was a race from the beginning. More countries are doing this.

[zello144]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/06/23/monumental-nationals-dc-bowser/

https://wtop.com/washington-commanders/2023/06/report-capitals-wizards-eying-move-to-northern-virginia/

Ted is looking at moving the caps and Wiz to Nova. Chinatown has become a bit of a dump but nobody wants to go to VA.

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Might get me hate but this Embiid stuff is silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but he lived in Cameroon until he was 15 and he's deciding between USA and France? What? Sure, Cameroon probably sucks. But if you're Cameroonian, play for Cameroon! Play for your country, build up the program, inspire your people. If they WERE good, I don't see him going to play for France instead. It's a national tournament, this free agency stuff is nonsense.

Yeah, I don't quite get why all of these rules are the way they are. We see it in international soccer too. I don't think it has to be 100% strict based on where you were born, but some of the decisions are bizarre.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Yeah, I don't quite get why all of these rules are the way they are. We see it in international soccer too. I don't think it has to be 100% strict based on where you were born, but some of the decisions are bizarre.

I remember when Serge Ibaka played on the Spanish team. They already had both Gasol brothers.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread




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[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

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Spurs nation must be buzzing the last 72 hours.

I saw people were trashing him because he missed a few jumpers during a photo shoot with his jerseys on SMH.

But it's nice he's going to have access to the guys. He really is going to have a round table if talent there. I hope it works out.