NBA Off Topic Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I apologize if this has been discussed here before; I admittedly don't follow the NBA forum as actively as I do the NFL/MLB forums. It seems like each year in the playoffs more and more big name players are injured; Giannis, Dame, Embiid, Leonard, just to name a few this year.

It may be my memory, but the NBA I watched growing up (80s/90s) I don't remember the injuries being a factor in the playoffs like they are now. Players today don't even play as many games in the regular season as they did 30 years ago with load management.

Would this indicate that the game is actually more physical? Are the athletes too muscle bound by comparison? One would think with advances in medicine, nutrition, and training we'd see fewer injuries, not more. Thoughts?

Don’t know if it means the game is more physical, especially when you consider the *type* of injuries that have become more “frequent” like torn muscle injuries which are moreso freak injuries as far as how they happen.

Even in Youth/HS Ball, you see more of those injuries becoming more frequent than they were 20-30 years ago.

But to your original point, I believe the one thing that has changed is…quality of life AFTER their playing careers are done. You don’t see too many players that have retired in the last 10 years look or moving around kinda crazy so I guess that’s the one + that has happened with all of those advances that you mentioned.

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think guys were injured just as much, you just didn't hear about it. They would play through bad injuries. That just doesn't happen anymore. But now I think guys get hurt more as a result of skipping games, load management, etc. The constant ramp up and down leads to injuries.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

What would you consider a “bad injury”?

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

[Dead2009]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I wonder if James Harden is gonna demand a trade from the Clippers either during the offseason or midseason like he usually does next year.

[VDusen04]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I apologize if this has been discussed here before; I admittedly don't follow the NBA forum as actively as I do the NFL/MLB forums. It seems like each year in the playoffs more and more big name players are injured; Giannis, Dame, Embiid, Leonard, just to name a few this year.

It may be my memory, but the NBA I watched growing up (80s/90s) I don't remember the injuries being a factor in the playoffs like they are now. Players today don't even play as many games in the regular season as they did 30 years ago with load management.

Would this indicate that the game is actually more physical? Are the athletes too muscle bound by comparison? One would think with advances in medicine, nutrition, and training we'd see fewer injuries, not more. Thoughts?

I think a lot of folks are trying to figure that out but there hasn't really been one proveable element that's emerged above the rest. Often, there's a lot of ideas thrown out there from both sides of the coin; the ones I tend to hear most, some of which I lend credence, others not so much:

1. High Intensity Burnout: This idea stems from the modern AAU generations in which kids are specializing in single sports from a very young age and playing them year round. There's been discussions that a lack of athletic diversity (i.e. playing multiple sports or being generally active outside of sports) and increased wear and tear from nonstop organized hoops/tournaments could lead to an increase in injuries from overuse.

Some have also speculated as to whether other elements of modern training—such as intensive weight training programs—have led to plenty of athletic gains but perhaps contribute to pushing one's body toward a potential breaking point.

2. Faster, Higher, Stronger: Some have floated the idea that players are cutting harder, hitting gaps quicker, and planting more firmly than at any other time in NBA history, perhaps leading to more muscle & ligament pulls, rips, and tears. I can't personally vouch for that beyond the acknowledged notion that professional courts and shoes are in better condition than the older days, allowing those sharper plants and pushoffs, but I don't know if it's to such a degree that it'd lead to an increase in injury.

3. A breakdown in the formerly socially accepted/expected ethos of playing through injury as a means of showcasing toughness and one's commitment to the team: This still exists in other sports—hockey players still seem to be out there playing through crazy injuries from time to time, football too—but that social construct may have slowly eroded in professional basketball over the past few decades. It doesn't seem to be a matter of players getting weaker or anything, rather, the zeitgeist has just more openly shifted toward self-preservation, as though folks got together at some point and realized, "Wait... why would I sacrifice my long term health for the sake of this random game?"

I think I saw this shifting as I grew up in the late '90s and 2000s. I used to wonder about the "if you can walk, you can play" ethos myself and I wonder if societally, we all sort of decided it was less than ideal for our generation.

Moreover, I wonder if players today have less reason than ever to play through injuries, since virtually every star is making $100 million the moment they sign their first big contract. Not to mention, I think the idea that playing injured (and risking further injury) could hinder future earning power. I imagine it could be a combination of those factors - the sense of urgency that former generations had to prove their worth and chase glory and money while they could combined with current generations having the financial comfort to prioritize their own health. Though even without money, I think all levels of basketball and sport have more heavily leaned toward playing it safe with injuries anyway.

I think guys were injured just as much, you just didn't hear about it. They would play through bad injuries. That just doesn't happen anymore. But now I think guys get hurt more as a result of skipping games, load management, etc. The constant ramp up and down leads to injuries.

What would you consider a “bad injury”?

I'd think of George Mikan's fractured leg, Willis Reed's torn thigh, Kevin McHale playing on a broken foot in the '80s, Dave Bing/Gerald Henderson/Calvin Murphy all playing with helmets, neck braces, or wrestling headgear to combat head injuries, Larry Bird pushing through his back injury for half a decade, Isiah Thomas playing with his severely sprained ankle, Isiah Thomas missing just two games with a broken hand in '89, Isiah Thomas curtailing his rehabilitation following wrist surgery to return for the '91 playoffs despite being unable to fully use said wrist, Isiah Thomas receiving forty stitches from a Karl Malone elbow then driving back across town to return to the game midway through the second half, etc.

I'm just not sure there's incentive to do things like that these days, especially with how the culture's shifted a bit over time. I remember coming up in an era where if an injury wasn't distressingly visible, you were generally looked upon with a skeptical eye by all if you weren't planning on suiting up. I think that still exists a little bit, but we all seem more broadly open to the idea that if a dude's injured, he's injured, whether there's a compound fracture or not. It probably shows we've progressed a little.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think a lot of folks are trying to figure that out but there hasn't really been one proveable element that's emerged above the rest. Often, there's a lot of ideas thrown out there from both sides of the coin; the ones I tend to hear most, some of which I lend credence, others not so much:

1. High Intensity Burnout: This idea stems from the modern AAU generations in which kids are specializing in single sports from a very young age and playing them year round. There's been discussions that a lack of athletic diversity (i.e. playing multiple sports or being generally active outside of sports) and increased wear and tear from nonstop organized hoops/tournaments could lead to an increase in injuries from overuse.

Some have also speculated as to whether other elements of modern training—such as intensive weight training programs—have led to plenty of athletic gains but perhaps contribute to pushing one's body toward a potential breaking point.

2. Faster, Higher, Stronger: Some have floated the idea that players are cutting harder, hitting gaps quicker, and planting more firmly than at any other time in NBA history, perhaps leading to more muscle & ligament pulls, rips, and tears. I can't personally vouch for that beyond the acknowledged notion that professional courts and shoes are in better condition than the older days, allowing those sharper plants and pushoffs, but I don't know if it's to such a degree that it'd lead to an increase in injury.

3. A breakdown in the formerly socially accepted/expected ethos of playing through injury as a means of showcasing toughness and one's commitment to the team: This still exists in other sports—hockey players still seem to be out there playing through crazy injuries from time to time, football too—but that social construct may have slowly eroded in professional basketball over the past few decades. It doesn't seem to be a matter of players getting weaker or anything, rather, the zeitgeist has just more openly shifted toward self-preservation, as though folks got together at some point and realized, "Wait... why would I sacrifice my long term health for the sake of this random game?"

I think I saw this shifting as I grew up in the late '90s and 2000s. I used to wonder about the "if you can walk, you can play" ethos myself and I wonder if societally, we all sort of decided it was less than ideal for our generation.

Moreover, I wonder if players today have less reason than ever to play through injuries, since virtually every star is making $100 million the moment they sign their first big contract. Not to mention, I think the idea that playing injured (and risking further injury) could hinder future earning power. I imagine it could be a combination of those factors - the sense of urgency that former generations had to prove their worth and chase glory and money while they could combined with current generations having the financial comfort to prioritize their own health. Though even without money, I think all levels of basketball and sport have more heavily leaned toward playing it safe with injuries anyway.



I'd think of George Mikan's fractured leg, Willis Reed's torn thigh, Kevin McHale playing on a broken foot in the '80s, Dave Bing/Gerald Henderson/Calvin Murphy all playing with helmets, neck braces, or wrestling headgear to combat head injuries, Larry Bird pushing through his back injury for half a decade, Isiah Thomas playing with his severely sprained ankle, Isiah Thomas missing just two games with a broken hand in '89, Isiah Thomas curtailing his rehabilitation following wrist surgery to return for the '91 playoffs despite being unable to fully use said wrist, Isiah Thomas receiving forty stitches from a Karl Malone elbow then driving back across town to return to the game midway through the second half, etc.

I'm just not sure there's incentive to do things like that these days, especially with how the culture's shifted a bit over time. I remember coming up in an era where if an injury wasn't distressingly visible, you were generally looked upon with a skeptical eye by all if you weren't planning on suiting up. I think that still exists a little bit, but we all seem more broadly open to the idea that if a dude's injured, he's injured, whether there's a compound fracture or not. It probably shows we've progressed a little.

On top of all this and the money the players make, it’s also about the money the teams have invested in the players.. idk how many times we have been told that it’s the team, doctors, trainers, holding players out rather than the player himself wanting to be out.. when you invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a player it makes sense to want him fully recovered before returning to in-game action.

To answer the OP directly, I’m not even sure there really is more injuries. I think we just see instances where players sit a couple weeks to get 100% rather than play through or just miss a game or two in years past.. rarely do see anybody (other than Kawhi) not still push to be back on the floor injured when it’s a playoff situation, and it seems every year there are a handful of guys getting some off-season procedure done immediately after they end because they were playing through something. Even Joel tries to play.

[Majingir]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Coach #10 coming up for LeBron

[zello144]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Remember when people used to say the Phoenix suns had the best medical staff. I wonder if that still holds true today and why aren’t teams copying what they did.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Remember when people used to say the Phoenix suns had the best medical staff. I wonder if that still holds true today and why aren’t teams copying what they did.

You can't copy arizona weather


The best thing a team can do is hire an Arnie Kander disciple, he's the best

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Some TV News for those interested:

Comcast’s NBCUniversal is closing in on securing the third NBA package and likely unveil a “Basketball Night in America" telecast with its annual bid of $2.5 billion per year, sources tell Sports Business Journal.

Sources say Warner Bros. Discovery, parent company of TNT, would have to increase its bid to as much as $2.8 billion per season to retain rights unless they attempt to settle the matter with litigation.

WBD exited its exclusive negotiating window with the NBA with the expectation they could match any bid from a rival company on a dollar-for-dollar basis.

Sources reiterated Wednesday that the NBA believes a dollar-for-dollar match is not enough because NBC is an over-the-air network with multiple broadcast windows and an RSN infrastructure that WBD cannot replicate.

“NBC has made their bid, and they're not budging,’’ a media industry source said. “So it's over, right? And Warner Bros. is saying, ‘We'll match it,’ and (Commissioner Adam Silver) is probably saying: ‘It's not matched.’ ’’

Sources say Adam Silver is trying to figure out a way to sever the relationship with TNT in a "gentle way."

“There's no mystery to this," the source said. “It's pretty blatant what's happening. David Zaslav realizes he has to have this and doesn't want to pay more than $2.5B. And Adam's saying, honestly, it's not matched at $2.5. And [Zaslav] goes, ‘Yes, it is,’ and they're going back and forth.’ And so that's where we are. How do you let [WBD] down? Is there a way? Or does Zaslav come up with more money? Because then it doesn't have to be matching because David's paid more.

“And that's where we are. Adam's trying to be nice to David right now until David backs off his dogs. He’s trying to help David save face.’’

NBC’s package is expected to include Sunday Night games following the NFL season, while perhaps taking over ESPN’s Friday night slate and TNT’s second-round playoff and conference final package. Amazon would likely have one weekday night (Tuesday or Thursday) and Saturday nights, as well as the Play-in tournament, the In-Season Tournament, first-round playoff games and likely some international rights.

ESPN will continue to be the exclusive home of The Finals.

“ESPN did not want to alternate the finals, which I think Adam wanted to do,’’ a source said. “Adam wanted to make a package for NBC and alternate the finals with ESPN. ESPN fought it, fought, fought it, and finally said fine, ‘We'll pay the $2.6B, but no alternating the finals.’ And WB thought the league would never get that [$2.5] price from NBC. They said, ‘Sure, go shopping.’ They shopped it, they got the price. And now David Zaslav goes, ‘We’re screwed.’’’

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/275651/NBC-Closing-In-On-NBA-Package-At-$25B-Per-Year-Unless-TNT-Increases-Offer-To-$28B


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zello144]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40113791/glen-big-baby-davis-sentenced-40-months-prison-fraud-scheme

Glen Davis going to jail

[Dead2009]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40113906/nba-suspends-bucks-patrick-beverley-four-games

I guess he can get people to subscribe to his podcast in his down time

[Master Live 013]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Zaslav: you hate to see it.


Don't complicate things NBC, here is what you should call it: "NBA on NBC".

[Master Live 013]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Should be 4 MVP's in a row for Jokic, but it is what it is.