NBA Off Topic Thread

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Embiid being out of the top 5 wouldn't really bother me. The guy is a stat monster, but so was Russ a while back. I'd have zero issue putting KD ahead of him. If I'm trying to win a ring this season I would 1000x rather have him.

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Embiid being out of the top 5 wouldn't really bother me. The guy is a stat monster, but so was Russ a while back. I'd have zero issue putting KD ahead of him. If I'm trying to win a ring this season I would 1000x rather have him.

Comparing Russell Westbrook with Joel Embiid? I'm done....

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[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Joker has been INSANE in the playoffs though. To say his playoff resume isn’t great is just wild to me. 31/13/6 this season on 64 TS%. Had the 5th highest playoff PER of all time (I know this ultimately means nothing)..

Like yeah they lost (to the champs lol) but what other player in the top 10 are you even holding to such a high standard that not beating the champs with Will Barton as the next highest minute man is viewed as a playoff failure?

With Joel I get that argument to an extent because he hasn’t had the type of individual playoff performances Joker has the past couple of years. And even though it’s not something he can control he’s yet to really stay 100% healthy for a playoff run either. Which to me both things can matter a bit in these rankings. Nobody has really seen Joel have the impact on a series the other 6-7 guys in the top 7ish have had. So I understand it a bit with him, just depends how much that matters to the voter I guess.

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Comparing Russell Westbrook with Joel Embiid? I'm done....

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I'm talking about MVP era Westbrook, when people had him as a world-beater even though he never won a thing.

[cima]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Their "postseason" resume has little to do with ranking them going into this year. I love both LBJ & KD, but it is more than understandable to say that the two best centers are both better than them as they enter the 39 year old & 34 year old seasons, respectively.

Especially with the seasons Emiid & Jokic just had while they are both in their physical prime (unlike LBJ & KD).


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At the end of the day player rankings are subjective, which is why you never see any media outlet or talking head or anyone with the exact same top 5. People value different things and to me winning matters and Embiid/Joker haven't figured that out yet. Jokic at least got to the WCF when Murray went HAM but Embiid hasn't taken over and done a carry-job yet. In fact his PPG in that second round loss you alluded to last season dropped by 11 from his regular season average. That doesn't usually happen with top 5 guys.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

This is a year where I would like Embiid to not focus on the MVP. I rather him put more emphasis back on defense like it was a couple of years ago. The hope is Harden bounces back some and Maxey gets a bigger role on offense. Unless they are a top 2 seed, I don't see him winning MVP. I think last year was his peak stats. With a better supporting cast, I don't want him to feel like he has to do everything him self. .


I do think #11 is too high for Harden, even 20 seems high. Unless they feel he will have big bounce back, that seems too high. For me, stats-wise he could remain the same. I just want to see higher efficient percentages. Being a Sixers fan, summer videos don't mean much to me. But, I do hope he does incorporate a lot more mid range shots this year. This year, it felt like it was just step back threes and trying to draw fouls(which lead to a lot of turnovers)

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Yeah I was gonna say Joker actually has a really good playoff resume individually. the team results haven't been there yet. Embiid and Luka would be the ones i would push back on, more so Embiid. his is really shaky. KD is not the 8th best player in the world but after this year i don't have too much of an issue with it.

[ojandpizza]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Yeah I was gonna say Joker actually has a really good playoff resume individually. the team results haven't been there yet. Embiid and Luka would be the ones i would push back on, more so Embiid. his is really shaky. KD is not the 8th best player in the world but after this year i don't have too much of an issue with it.

I’m not saying it doesn’t matter at all but this is where the whole “rings” thing gets super murky to me. Like the whole “he hasn’t won yet” or “player X has this many rings”.. it’s like I get it, but how many times has that guy who hasn’t won yet supposed to win the series that they lost? How many of the times that payer won those rings were they the favorites to win the ring? Like you still have to perform and get the job done obviously, some guys who win/lose step up and do more or do worse sure, but unless you’ve just went nuts in a good/bad way that influenced your team bombing a series you should have won, or winning a series you had no business winning, then I really don’t understand those types of arguments outside those situations.

Especially from cima (no offense cima) but I know you strongly feel the Cavs had a shot if Kyrie and Love had played in 2015. And in losing you don’t hold that against LeBron. But Joker also losing to the champs with no Murray and Porter is him not doing enough. It just doesn’t add up.

Year before last they lost to the conference champs without Murray. Year before that they lost to the champs with a healthy and rested Bron + AD. Yeah Murray had a great postseason, what good player hasn’t had guys around them play great or greatly step up when their team is successful to that degree. Do the Lakers even win it all that year if KCP doesn’t hit one of his hot/consistent streaks during the playoffs given how on/off he can be? Maybe not. That’s basketball. And even if that’s what you’re holding against Joker it was 3 years ago which isn’t exactly a reflection on how he should be viewed coming into this season fresh off 2 MVPs. Even if you think he shouldn’t have won the award, that’s 2 consecutive MVP level years. Him finishing 2, 3rd wouldn’t have changed him playing at an MVP level.

[cima]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'm not even talking about rings with them, I'm just talking about a deep postseason run. Like I said Jokic at least made it to the WCF (with Murray playing out of his mind) but Embiid has never seen the ECF and he looked especially lackluster against Miami in the 2nd round last year in which he only averaged 19 PPG after averaging over 30 PPG in the season. So like I said, Top 5 players don't drop off like that.

And I don't have a problem with anyone having Joker in their top 5. I was just saying for me personally, give me KD or LeBron over either of them. Fine by me if anyone else picks the other 2.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I know you’re not talking about rings specifically, but the thought process behind it is the same. In either scenario it’s “X players team didn’t advance so I’m holding it against X player regardless of how he actually played or what his circumstance was”.

I get the Joel thing. But even with him it’s mostly injuries. Durability is a thing, as the saying goes the best ability is availability, that’s why Kawhi and AD are penalized so much by this list. But Joel not advancing has a lot to do with those issues not necessarily how good he is assuming healthy. I’m not saying there are times he couldn’t have been better. But basing his ranking mostly based on last season I don’t think losing that series should be a deciding factor.

Even in the Heat example he missed 2-3 games coming off a concussion. Was wearing a mask in that series. Was playing with a broken orbital bone, torn ligaments in his right thumb and left index finger. It’s normal to have nagging injuries come playoff time, those are a bit more than that. Enough that I wouldn’t really cite it as a perfectly healthy Embiid just dropping 11 points because he’s under-performing in the 2nd round.

In fairness to your point though Joel is the one guy from this group we haven’t really seen just explode in the playoffs yet. I feel like most assume he’s capable, but with everyone else we’ve seen it happen.

And I don’t fault you for knocking either guy out. I think these top 7 or so are so close, maybe the closest group we’ve had in years. I had Embiid as my 7 even. I just thought the whole playoff dig at Joker wasn’t really apples to apples vs these other guys. I mean Bron wasn’t even there at all this past year, KD was bounced in the first round, Luka hasn’t made it farther than him either. Bucks got it done last year when healthy but when banged up like the Nuggets also lost in the 2nd round this year.

[tru11]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'm not even talking about rings with them, I'm just talking about a deep postseason run. Like I said Jokic at least made it to the WCF (with Murray playing out of his mind) but Embiid has never seen the ECF and he looked especially lackluster against Miami in the 2nd round last year in which he only averaged 19 PPG after averaging over 30 PPG in the season. So like I said, Top 5 players don't drop off like that.

And I don't have a problem with anyone having Joker in their top 5. I was just saying for me personally, give me KD or LeBron over either of them. Fine by me if anyone else picks the other 2.

You are right.

Both Lebron and KD where amazing last year in the post season….


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[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Again, I don't think that ranking is a knock on LeBron or Kevin. There has been clear and obvious slippage in their game's athletically and on the defensive end. Yes, Embiid and Jokic don't have their "playoff resumes" but that list is about the here and now. Both guys are elite on offense, Embiid is near elite on defense (Jokic is above average), Jokic is the greatest passing big man ever, both carried so - so rosters to the playoffs, they were #1 and #2 in MVP voting, both are in their physical prime in comparison to James and Durant.

It is incredible with the wear and tear they've both endured that James and Durant (especially Durant with a usually career crippling Achilles tear) are still elite, but they aren't those guys anymore. I and ESPN (plus whomever else) could be wrong but I doubt it.

And the Westbrook comparison to Embiid is silly based on the simple fact that he was never the anchor of an offense and defense. Plus, the issue of his clear & obvious stat padding, numbers chasing once Durant left OKC. Embiid needed to play out of this world after Ben Simmons quit on Philly and with Harden likely not being a top 20 player, anymore.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think the issue with Lebron and KD has been more injuries, especially nagging ones(moreso for Lebron)but when they’ve both been healthy, there really hasn’t been much difference in their games(basically still looking like the best players on the court)

Obviously with both of them getting old, there’s going to be some type of drop off, as that’s normal in players at that age…but aside from that, they both still look and play like the best players on the floor on most nights.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

"NBA rules change this season to limit prolonged standing of bench players/coaches and crowding of sideline. Warning first. Then delay-of-game warning. Then technical. Unsportsmanlike technical assessed for players not in game who enter playing court or making "distracting" move."

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

"NBA rules change this season to limit prolonged standing of bench players/coaches and crowding of sideline. Warning first. Then delay-of-game warning. Then technical. Unsportsmanlike technical assessed for players not in game who enter playing court or making "distracting" move."

Booo! Turning into the No Fun League over here.

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