NBA Off Topic Thread

[JazzMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Man I need Donovan Mitchell to hurry up and be the Jazz's GOAT

Stock and Malone's legacies did not age gracefully lol due to outside reasons of course

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[ProfessaPackMan]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Who made the list?

Can’t go wrong with Kidd, Doc or Drazen though.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Sooooo can we take a moment to talk about everything wrong with this list?



Starting with the lack of Kareem and Bill Russell anywhere near it? Damian Lillard as Portland’s GOAT? Penny Hardaway for Orlando? Kemba Walker for Charlotte? Giannis for Milwaukee already? Come on now


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Some of these are questionable but the only ones I see as a just huge issues are Penny and Arenas. Neither of them are anywhere close to even make an argument IMO.

I feel like lots of people view Larry as a better player than Russell. Hard to dispute 11 rings, but I feel like there is at least a debate to be had on that one. I don’t think I could vote Larry over him if it was my list, but I don’t think that one is too crazy. To a degree though Russell’s impact is similar to that of a Draymond. Lots of people are going to lean towards the guy who led your offense, closed out games for you, etc.. if they see it as close that could be their deciding factor. All those possessions back then (Wilt dropping 50 a night) Russell was scoring at a rate of like 12 points a night at his best compared to modern possessions. Still though, impact on winning alone, you could vote him as GOAT. I’d lean towards Bill.

For Giannis I know it doesn’t seem like long but he’s already been there longer than Kareem was. Took home 2 MVPs there, has a ring just like Kareem there. He’s already the franchise leader in points, blocks, 2nd in rebounds, 5th in steals, 2nd in assists, has made the same amount of All-NBA teams, one more defensive team, DPOY award... not saying I’d pick him over Kareem just yet but I think it being so recent and Kareem playing for so long it makes the difference feel much larger than it is when looking at what they’ve both done in Milwaukee. I think he has an argument and another season or two from him and Kareem might be considered 2nd for them by the majority of people.

Kemba is iffy but that team is just *** in its history. Only players that even played more games for them there was Dell and Mugsy. Kemba has tons of the teams all time records.. I honestly have no idea who I would even pick for that team. Literally nobody in their entire history has done anything worth noting. I mean there 2nd highest player in win-shares is Gerald Wallace because nobody decent played more than 2-3 years there. Larry and Rice are the only two to make a All-NBA 2nd team, Jefferson, Jones, Mason, Rice, Kemba have all made a 3rd team.. Kemba and Rice are franchise leaders with 3 All-Star selections.. so not saying Kemba is a good choice but literally nobody else would be either.

Clyde over Dame feels pretty cut and dry to me. Dame has narrowed the gap some on a lot of career stats for them, has made 1 more All-NBA team, has 1 more time finishing top 10 for MVP, but Clyde still holds most team records, made the finals, finished 2nd for MVP in ‘92, tops most playoff stats, etc .. that one is pretty easy to me. I don’t like that choice but it’s at least somewhat understandable in comparison to the Penny or Arenas vote. But yeah I think the gap there is still pretty size-able.

Personally I’d probably vote Kidd for the Nets, and Doc for the Sixers, or even Wilt. Not that Doc is a bad choice for the Nets just hard for me to pick a list like this based on ABA production alone.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Kobe-> Magic
Dame-> Drexler
Penny-> Shaq

Don’t see too much wrong with the list though.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'd put Vince for the Raptors.

I think people sometimes forget that the Raptors and Griz came into the same expansion draft, and the Griz soon relocated from Vancouver. Toronto may have faced the same danger but Vince came in and energized a franchise like few guys have.

That wouldn't be enough to give him the spot for most franchises, but its enough to give him the nod over Lowry

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Kobe-> Magic
Dame-> Drexler
Penny-> Shaq

Don’t see too much wrong with the list though.

Kobe one is tough for me because I think most would agree that in their time with the team Kareem, Magic and Shaq were better. Think a case could at least be made for West too. But Kobe was just with the team for so long, even the other Lakers pretty much consider him that guy.

I feel bad dogging him so much because 1.) he was a good player and 2.) I was a huge fan, who wasn’t a huge fan of Penny in the 90’s?….

But to me Penny might be the worst choice. Shaq is the franchises best player by a big margin, Dwight had the best career there by a big margin, and given that Penny wasn’t even there/healthy for very long I wouldn’t even pick him over T-Mac either.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'd put Vince for the Raptors.

I think people sometimes forget that the Raptors and Griz came into the same expansion draft, and the Griz soon relocated from Vancouver. Toronto may have faced the same danger but Vince came in and energized a franchise like few guys have.

That wouldn't be enough to give him the spot for most franchises, but its enough to give him the nod over Lowry

Yeah that’s tough. Lowry and DeRozan pretty much set most the franchise records. And while Vince did what you mentioned Lowry also got them their only title. It’s hard for me, I’m a Vince fan and I just think at his best he’s a better player. But I get when people pick Lowry.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Kobe one is tough for me because I think most would agree that in their time with the team Kareem, Magic and Shaq were better. Think a case could at least be made for West too. But Kobe was just with the team for so long, even the other Lakers pretty much consider him that guy.

I feel bad dogging him so much because 1.) he was a good player and 2.) I was a huge fan, who wasn’t a huge fan of Penny in the 90’s?….

But to me Penny might be the worst choice. Shaq is the franchises best player by a big margin, Dwight had the best career there by a big margin, and given that Penny wasn’t even there/healthy for very long I wouldn’t even pick him over T-Mac either.

It should be Dwight, Shaq, Penny.

I love Penny. Loved the lil Penny commercials even more, but there are times where I can't quite figure out why it seems he gets more love the more time goes on.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Who made the list?

Can’t go wrong with Kidd, Doc or Drazen though.

I think I’d vote Kidd myself.

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Definitely a serious recency bias there. Or they're just straight up trying to cater to certain demo clicks.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Definitely a serious recency bias there. Or they're just straight up trying to cater to certain demo clicks.

There is by default going to be some degree of recency bias given that 7 of these teams didn’t even exist until the 90s-today.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Kyle Lowry really? Lol that one I have a real problem with.

It has to be Vince or Derozan. But Vince really made the Raptors cool. So it has to be him.

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[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

There is by default going to be some degree of recency bias given that 7 of these teams didn’t even exist until the 90s-today.

As much as Vince made them cool his exit was also messy. He’s the most talented player to put on a Raptors jersey other than Kahwi, but 2 short playoff runs is the only team success he had there too. To me Vince is instantly who I think of when I picture the Raptors, but admittedly a bit of that is likely simply nostalgia and Vince being arguably my favorite player to ever play.

DeRozan and Lowry are close. But Lowry was there for the ring, obviously, when DeRozan was gone. Lowry in team history is also 2nd in points, 3rd in rebounds, 1st in assists, 1st in steals, and leads team in history in playoff points, rebounds, assists, steals. He has the most All-Star selections in team history, but both Vince and DeRozan top him with 2 All-NBA selections to 1.

The obvious leader in win-shares given he was there longer than DD, Vince, Bosh.. but amount of time with a franchise likely somewhat counts for something in a team specific scenario like this.

Idk that I would vote Lowry over both of them, but I think any of the 3 have a pretty strong case for whatever that’s worth given none of them ever reached that true superstar tier. Vince was probably the closest. But I think for anybody that leans on the teams single championship as a big chunk of this Lowry makes sense.

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Nope to Kobe, Penny, Dame, and Stockton,

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

As much as Vince made them cool his exit was also messy. He’s the most talented player to put on a Raptors jersey other than Kahwi, but 2 short playoff runs is the only team success he had there too. To me Vince is instantly who I think of when I picture the Raptors, but admittedly a bit of that is likely simply nostalgia and Vince being arguably my favorite player to ever play.

DeRozan and Lowry are close. But Lowry was there for the ring, obviously, when DeRozan was gone. Lowry in team history is also 2nd in points, 3rd in rebounds, 1st in assists, 1st in steals, and leads team in history in playoff points, rebounds, assists, steals. He has the most All-Star selections in team history, but both Vince and DeRozan top him with 2 All-NBA selections to 1.

The obvious leader in win-shares given he was there longer than DD, Vince, Bosh.. but amount of time with a franchise likely somewhat counts for something in a team specific scenario like this.

Idk that I would vote Lowry over both of them, but I think any of the 3 have a pretty strong case for whatever that’s worth given none of them ever reached that true superstar tier. Vince was probably the closest. But I think for anybody that leans on the teams single championship as a big chunk of this Lowry makes sense.

Raptors being a young franchise really takes away from the prestige of any record leader board.

If Lowry was THE guy for the championship run I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but as it is I don't think Lowry on the Raptors will have a lot of staying power. A lot of NBA fans still remember watching Vince's highlights during that Vinsanity run. But 15 years from now I think I'll struggle to remember any Lowry moments. But Vince's in-game highlights plus his dunk contest will always live on.