Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

When are we gonna start debating Jokic as the best center ever?

He's not too far from being in the argument and that is insane to even type out.

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I’ll ask: What’s the argument for it and how do you compare him to Centers from other eras where style of play was different?

[jeebs9]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

I’ll ask: What’s the argument for it and how do you compare him to Centers from other eras where style of play was different?

Stop it bro. Shaq would destroy this dude in any era. He'd foul out or let Shaq drop 50. LMFAO jk

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

I’ll ask: What’s the argument for it and how do you compare him to Centers from other eras where style of play was different?

I don't know, he's about to win his 3rd MVP, has the most versatile skill set for a big man ever, is the best passing big man ever, offensively he's one of the most efficient players ever and might win back - to - back titles.

Kareem is the second best player ever, IMO, yet I still think Jokic is at or near his tier of greatness.

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[DamnYanks2]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Id revisit this if they go back to back. Jokic is doing what jo center has ever done with his playmaking ability. Kareem didn't do that Shaq sure as hell didn't. Wilt etc..

Jokic is in a class by himself imo. Because nobody has seen a center do the things he does. There have been more dominant centers offensively but nobody has done it all like Jokic

[JazzMan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Jokic is probably the most technically skilled player I've ever seen play basketball, legit makes it look effortless and casual out there. Not even just playmaking but scoring wise too, didn't even realize he had 32 last night until I checked the box score after the game was done

[Mr B]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Stop it bro. Shaq would destroy this dude in any era. He'd foul out or let Shaq drop 50. LMFAO jk

Prime Shaq would absolutely destroy Jokic in the paint.

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Prime Shaq would absolutely destroy Jokic in the paint.

Yeah, but Jokic would kill him from the outside and he's crafty as hell. It would be a fun and incredible match up to watch.

Shaq could/would kill 98% of the big men of any era.

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[dubcity]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Doesn't he have to win more rings to even be in consideration? If it's just skill level and IQ, I guess he's up there. But when is that ever how we rank all time greats?

[illwill10]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Kawhi is ruled out. It's his 12th of last 14 games he will have missed. The talent is undeniable, but I just don't know how you can be confident building long term with him. And that's coming from a 76ers fan with Embiid as the main building block.

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Doesn't he have to win more rings to even be in consideration? If it's just skill level and IQ, I guess he's up there. But when is that ever how we rank all time greats?

Uh, he has multiple MVP awards too.

He should honestly have 4 in a row, but silly narratives won out last year.

Winning more titles would strengthen his case, but those are team accomplishments.

His individual greatness is easily up there with the best big men ever, IMO.

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[ojandpizza]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Jokic is tricky because like Pack said he’s just so different compared to most big men who have been great traditionally. But on the other hand it’s hard to really take away from him for that too. All any player can do in maximize their strengths in ways to make them and their team successful in their own eras. And if Jokic can use his strengths to play in ways that traditional bigs didn’t necessarily before him it’s not really a fault of his own.

I don’t really put much into these “he needs X amount of rings” or “he needs x amount of MVPs” for any player. You aren’t going to get voted MVP every single year you have an MVP-caliber season, and your team isn’t always going to win a championship unless it’s the best team in the league every single year.. just like this year for example, Boston SHOULD win. And if they do I don’t see how that makes Joker any more or less of player, just like him losing to Golden State two years ago when he was individually great shouldn’t take away from him when he didn’t even have Murray and MPJ available.. so much goes into winning a ring, you gotta have injury luck, win the coaching adjustments, role players hot/cold at the right time, avoid mismatches, etc..

What I do think though is he needs to sustain this level of play a bit longer. I think he’s ran off a great 5-ish years but to really enter those best center ever arguments I think he needs to continue that. He had a bit of a slower start to get to this point, similar to someone like Curry, and for me he just needs to keep on this path for a bit longer..

I do think he’s got an argument for the most impactful offensive big man ever. There is just so much he does well on the court, he’s so efficient, the passing, screens, shooting, he’s dominant inside, outside, mid-range, as the screener, as the ball-handler, makes his FTs... it’s easy to say he’s can’t defend Shaq in the post.. he doesn’t have to, he’s not playing prime Shaq, and to be fair nobody could defend prime Shaq.. but on the other side which of those traditional bigs covers him 30ft from the hoop, is able to hedge, recover, contest his jumper, keep him from slipping screens, and all that too? That’s why it’s so hard to compare guys who are never going to play against each other in a manner that tries to assume what either would do playing in eras where they didn’t actually play.

I do think he’s sorta separated himself from other players playing right now.. a couple years ago I think you could still push for Giannis and his two-way advantage, maybe you could still say you’d rather have vets like Bron or KD in a playoff series, but Jokic has improved in so many areas, the defense is actually good now, his on-court impact and what Denver has been able to build around that, the whole package is just elite at this point.

I’d say historically speaking Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and probably Hakeem and David Robinson would be the “bigs” I would have ahead of him for his career.. obviously Kareem has had a GOAT tier career so much would have to be done to over-take that but I don’t know that any of those other guys are players I would completely put out of his reach. I think these last 3-4 years from him would rival any of those players best 3-4 years (possibly not Shaq) just on an island individually. He just needs to sustaining this and keep providing MVP-level impact in playoff runs for a few more years.. obviously the back end of his career is going matter some too. I absolutely think Kareem and Duncan built up their career by providing huge value to championship caliber teams even after their primes faded.. Jokic relies so little on athleticism now that this seems almost easy for him to achieve though if he’s healthy and has the desire to play that long.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Busy day and haven’t caught any of this game but damn the Clipps beating the **** outta Dallas without Kawhi is crazy.

[jeebs9]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Pelicans-Thunder is great to start.

[jeebs9]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Herb is the ****ing Word!!! Have everyone seen the defense he's playing on one of the toughest players to guard in the world?

[ojandpizza]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Rd Discussion Thread

Pelicans hanging close