Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • FloridaGators
    MVP
    • Jul 2002
    • 2698

    #16
    Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

    Young:

    Off topic but ISS by Konami.

    Comment

    • FloridaGators
      MVP
      • Jul 2002
      • 2698

      #17
      Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

      Boiler:

      I think EA will continue to enhance the Freestyle next year, totally revamp the player faces, add more things to the franchise, and add A.I. sliders to the game so we can make it more sim oriented. I think next year's big thing will be improved franchise mode, player models, and Marv Albert in the booth.

      Comment

      • mjyoung
        Rookie
        • Oct 2002
        • 91

        #18
        Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

        I really just want an improved franchise mode and an actual real difference between simulation and arcade mode. Oh, and steal the 'street' play from 2K3 so I can just have some 2v2 fun or whatever when I have friends over =)

        Comment

        • silky4
          Rookie
          • Sep 2002
          • 248

          #19
          Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

          I agree. I think all Live needs is ralistic shooting percentages, a beefed up franchise mode, and smarter end-game AI. I still have a hard time figuring out why everyone is so caught up in the "stereotype" that 2K3 is a sim and Live is arcade. For the 1,000th time, Live on superstar mode has a very realistic pace, you've got a REAL playbook (unlike 2K3), and the freestyle mode is MOST effective when properly used to play FUNDAMENTAL DEFENSE (slide-step, quick hand pokes, shot challenges, and taking charges).

          2K3's passing model isn't realistic, fastbreaks are just run-outs (point guard never gets out on the break, and I mean NEVER), and you can't run guys off screens for open jumpers. Now tell me, other than the dope-a$$ franchise mode, what does 2K3 do that's more of a sim? Slower game speed? Less highlight dunks? Why is this BETTER? I just can't figure it out.

          Also, when you look at both games IN ACTION, how can anyone think that 2K3 looks more like basketball? Who does their motion capture, because those moves don't look like basketball moves. No up-and-under move? No jump-stop layups? Now, I haven't played Live online yet, but if it's anything like playing the CPU, you can gaurd someone doing freestyle. You can get low, slide with them, then block their shot, or take a charge. Freestyle is not just eye-candy (why do I feel like I'm always repeating myself).

          I guess my point is that Live may not be a sim, but 2K3 is not that much better of one, unless all you care about are shooting percentages. Because Live sure as hell LOOKS and FEELS more like basketball than 2k3. I'm sorry, I loved 2k3, but after playing Live, it just felt more like I was really playing. 2K3 seemed slow, frustrating, and boring. Now, if that's a sim, then I'll take the arcade game EA. Keep up the good work, and add a realistic injury model...

          Comment

          • Emjay
            Pro
            • Oct 2002
            • 546

            #20
            Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

            I have to agree somewhat with Silky4 on his post. While personally I enjoy 2K3, I have to agree with what he said about LIve. I said this before on another thread: Live is not and has never been a simulation. It has all the rules of basketball: yes all of the nuances: no. The game was made to be fun, and it is, that's why I never took it back. If you read the review for this game on some sites, they say things like "this reminds me of the old Genesis/Playstation games". If that's the case, were those games considered simulations? Bottom line, if the game you buy has what you like, enjoy it. If it doesn't and the store you bought it from allows it, take it back. If Live is outselling 2K3 3:1 like I hear, I wouldn't change a thing until profits were affected.

            Comment

            • wwharton
              *ll St*r
              • Aug 2002
              • 26949

              #21
              Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

              since you're repeating yourself I'll repeat myself too.

              PGs don't run out on fast breaks, they come back to get the ball like they're supposed to. At first I thought they always went to the foul line but they don't it depends on the type of team. They come all the way back, to the side, foul line, just like in real life. What they don't do is run down the court expecting the rebounder to throw a baseball pass to half court to start a fastbreak.

              And yes, there are a lot of plays where players come off picks to catch the ball for shots. Mostly 3's. The problem is you have to memorize the plays b/c you can't see em in game.

              I ain't disputing live so I can't say whether EA will ever make a simulation compared to this year, but denying that it isn't a true sim will only decrease the chances that they make the changes necessary to make it one.

              Comment

              • deadlyartist
                Rookie
                • Oct 2002
                • 78

                #22
                Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                Its lengthy but well worth the read I think!

                Ok you say live is a more appropriate basketball game, and 2k3 is not a sim you are sadly mistaken. Let me began by stating some true facts at one point live was a game of choice for many; well lets just say it was the only choice and a goodone at that for the most part. As time went on more companies jumped in the sports genre to compete, but never really becoming a threat to the ea's name brand of sports.May I add while I on the topic of ea sports that I also was and ea fan until bout the year ea 98 when I feel ea begin the change for the worst.

                With the worstening of ea came along sega into the spot light with its introduction of its sports games and while not surpassing ea they made a good entry and has gotten better with every introduction of their games.I believe the reason for this is that they were and are striving to out do easports which in turn allows them to do better then easports cause ea has its name for the sales and not the passion to please its one time loyal fans, which allows me to get into the main reason I replyed to this post.

                Ok I have not played live extensively as most of you stated you did however, I have played it just to give the freesteyle a run because thats someting I suggested back in the days when I was playing easports games so let me add its an obviously great introduction to the game.I believe this is the only reason everyone is running to the store to get live for if freestyle was not in the game I believe we really would not be having this debate sega wins hands down! So on to the reason ea's game has no appeal atleast to this gamer is do to the fact that i see the same thing in last years version in this years version1.bump into a offensive player and no foul= steal unrealistic,2.superfast gameplay =unrealistic,3. blocks that only wind up back in the offenses possesion most of the time = unrealistic,4.constant flops of the defensive players and no offensive fouls called when this happens = unrealistic,5. way too many stylistic dunks on defenders = unrealistic,6.what the freestyle gameplay does to this years easport basketball is make it all offensive and no defense which in basketball terms = unrealistic.
                Let me ask you this question how many of you livers find your self useing the buttons on defense bet alot of you because the freestyle for D was not nearly find tuned as it was for the Big O in LIve 2003 with that said live is a jam fest and a d*m goodone at that it has nba jam written all over it and while some of you may argue that the game on superstar mode give you a sim feel well your wrong this is where ea really messes up they make u play all the defense on that mode your guys don't do nothing which I thnk is just lame and I bet the majority feels this way the controls don't always respond.Yet in this mode the offensive players work for the other player which leaves and unbalance on gameplay and just reverts back to a high scoring inside jam fest.So I say your sim is missing no matter how u look at it.
                Go play live and put all these things I stated to the test bet they're true defensive players flopping,offensive players getting the all famous bump and loose the ball,superfast gameplay hard to keep up whats going on rewind that replay lets see what happened,too many drives to the basket where's the D?
                I am done with live for now so just let me mention its a good b-ball game just not for me and probably not for any real simmer out there or should I say basketball enthusist.Oh I forgot to mention live's graphics can't contend with NBA 2k3's but it has some nice animations on with the other part of this Debate.

                NBA 2K3 is a sim with some faults and thats how where going to start this one off. OK its has faults,but most of them are new ones with the exception of a few repeats.Ok the most obvious gripe is the fast break and I do agree its back but not as bad as last years version and this ties in with the passing game which has faults also,but for the most part its better this year just takes alot of practice to get down since buying the game on the first day of release and playing it I must admit I was horrific at passing it peed me off for a while but I calm down and begin the long road of practice which = perfection and now there is no mishaps on my part there is no why did it go to that player thank goodness for icon passing(note:hide the icons in the option menu great for head to head play they don't have a heads up on when your passing), but I get the d*m what the hell just happen to my fast break when a player stops for no reason just to get the ball in open court its annoying but something I can get past(pay attention here thats a fanboy statemen as you all will note) its a minor set back its like you Livers say I can get buy without the sim feel for the use of this freestyle feature.

                On majority of the other fautls such as to many misses there is the sliders something live is missing so I have no need to expound on those faults that may arrise, and yes it should have come packaged for out of the box play but it did not so they gave you sliders tweak the game and stop complaining the game speed is not an issue because you can set the game on fast setting in the options then raise the speed slider all the way to max and up your teams tempo in coaching so problem solved on that issue. The missed shot is solved with tha sliders also so another fault which is not an issue.OK now I am starting to see the anwer to that why 2K fanboys are not speaking about there games faults.
                As I write this debate they disappear for the most part with the addition of 2K3 sliders something ea just for some reason forgot to include could you say cough cough marketing hit 'em with that next year sounds like ea's answer to me(marketing giants).Now you are starting to get annoyed by all the bashing of ea right well let me explain something ea has been around now for quite sometime with its line of sports game and I know I am not the only one ask or suggest they fix something to only buy the next version and its not fixed only overshadowed with some other snazzy feature and a slew of other probs.Now take a look at Sega for the most part they listens to who pays there bills and pay for their house or plain and simple who could make or break them the consumer yes Sega have their agenda,but all our babbling doesn't go unheard.That to me says alot about there company and the people working for them.Example what did Ea market this Year LIve 2003 or Freestyle 2003 while on the other hand Sega did not start its marketing plan till after its game was already on the shelf.

                My final run at this debate = FUN FACTOR.I have been reading Live is more fun then 2K3 and I ask by who's standards is this assumption from not the masses I know this much and not by my standards.Whats draws people to live is its easy pick up and play style while 2K3 has a much more pick up and practice then enjoy the fun which we should welcome for a change.For goodness sake you would not want to have been playing a game for amonth only to loose to someone that has not played it at all would you where is the fun in that?This is possible when playing live however, more difficult when playing 2K3 because of the deep learning curve and thats realism right there.Will the Lakers be able to defend their tittle if they don't practice and Allen Iverson don't have a tittle because he want go to practice with his teammate go figure.So I welcome Sega's deep learning curve make me work for my fun in the end its more enjoyable that way.

                Comment

                • enefeltukay
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 189

                  #23
                  Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                  EA doesn't make SIM sports games they never did, everyone thinks EA develop sim games since they were the one who started the sports game revolution back then.

                  But when you start playing their games, they are not sim-like at all, you can score a ton of points, when you learn the CPUs tendency, their games are arcade like, and it doesn't have attention to detail on the field. They include stuff like "Pancakes", "Freestyle control" they are all gimmicks and marketing strategies. Their games are more for teens and casual gamers that would go "ooo what feature is that".

                  True simulation games belong to Sega Sports. Because they actually put features in their games that happens on the field/court. They are harder to play because they try to simulate the real games. They don't include gimmicks or other features that would catch the attention of young gamers, they include features that will recreate the real game.

                  For example ESPN license, they got this so it adds a realistic feeling that you are actually watching or involved in a real game.

                  EA has NEVER created true SIM sport games, they make it look SIM but its not. And they will create games base on what gamers want and not how it is on the field. Example, "strafes" in Madden. In NFL they usually just run, they can not strafe that fast.

                  Comment

                  • Emjay
                    Pro
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 546

                    #24
                    Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                    Exactly. I'm glad someone else noticed that EA does not, did not, or ever made simulations, at least when it came to basketball.

                    Comment

                    • Da_Czar
                      NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 5408

                      #25
                      Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                      i thought we all knew that they didn't make sims but were ever hopeful that they would because they were the top guns, however that is changing ,
                      Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

                      Comment

                      • Emjay
                        Pro
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 546

                        #26
                        Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                        I don't think EA would really go out of their way to make a total simulation like people hope because like I said earlier their profits aren't affected. I read somewhere that Live was outselling 2K3 somewhere like 3 to 1. So I don't see them making changes if they are selling well. The demand for the game is there the way it is. If they were being outsold 3 to 1, they would be doing research and finding out that most of the gaming public is leaning toward a real simulation and then try to make changes to next year's edition to reflect more of a simulation. This year's game is not bad, while it's not a simulation, it did address most of the problems of last year's game and added a new addition that was suited for the pace of the game.

                        Comment

                        • Jsupastar
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 91

                          #27
                          Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                          The NBA Live, NHL, and FIFA franchises are all made by EA Canada, a division of EA Sports. The folks at Tiburon, which develops the Madden Franchise, have done the best job simulating any sport, period. I could care less about the NHL and FIFA franchises, but if the suits at EA would assigned a developer as committed to NBA Live as Tiburon is to Madden, I'm sure we would all be talking about the NBA Live Franchise as 2nd to none. But EA doesn't care about that. They do care about all the fanboys that will buy their product no matter what. All about the Benji's baby!

                          Comment

                          • Graphik
                            Pr*s*n*r#70460649
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 10582

                            #28
                            Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                            i agree with u, its seems for years ea has suckered me into buying games b/c of thier gimmicks and new eye candy features.
                            http://neverfollow.biz (Independent Music Group)

                            Comment

                            • silky4
                              Rookie
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 248

                              #29
                              Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                              Well, for one, if you check everything I've said, I NEVER said that Live was a sim. I've always maintained that, to me, BOTH games have their arcade-like aspects, just that Live was a lot more fun at doing it.

                              And I only disagree with one point: that there are very few, and at that, very ineffective, plays in 2K3 to run players off screens. Most of 2K3's plays are about isolating your best players to go one-on-one. It's funny that both games do exactly the same thing.

                              2K3 doesn't have gimmicks? What about how they were hyping their double crossover animation?? Oh, my bad, you guys forgot about that one. Maximum Passing???

                              Look, yes, Live is an arcade game. My argument is that it plays realistically on superstar level, and that the freestyle moves work just as well on defense as they do on offense. Now, if you knew how to play the game properly, you could learn how to d-up and not get ran on fast breaks, and not get constantly dunked on. But, I guess I'm not arguing with Live 2003 experts, I'm arguing with guys who played Live for a little while, then went back to 2K3. Fair enough.

                              All I know is, any basketball fan out there would feel that Live is hella fun. Whether they prefer one to the other, I don't care. I just think that people are feeding the stereotype about Live before actually playing the game long enough to discover its nuances. I've already said a million times, I loved 2K3, thought seriously about keeping it, but only wanted to spend money on one game. I played Live, the game got me up out of my seat yelling, the game is a very exciting, down-to-the-wire cold sweat type game, where each possesion is critical, and getting defensive stops requires some serious work. Don't agree? That's fine, that's what these boards are all about. I respect your opinions, and love debating this issue.

                              All I know is, I had given up on video games. I was more into DVD's lately, and Live got me excited about playing games again. 2K3 was just same ol' same ol' to me, and I just didn't need that type of game in my library. 2K3 has a great franchise mode, no doubt, but the game just wasn't exciting enough for me to want to play a full season of it. The ironic thing is that with Live, I do want to play a season, and their franchise mode is whack. But that's cool. I know that I can get some competition online. And I doubt that someone playing the game for the first time could beat anyoone that's played it long enough to be able to handle the CPU on superstar. But I'll be able to put that to the test when I get my adapter.

                              Just have to say, it's cool debating with you guys. You all have come with some good arguments.

                              Comment

                              • wwharton
                                *ll St*r
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 26949

                                #30
                                Re: Will EA ever make a basketball simuation again ?

                                silky i try not to debate with you (at least your main points) b/c I haven't played live, and do think it'd be fun (will be) if/when I play it. So I may again sound nitpicky but two things... Your point about not arguing with Live experts is dead on but you're making cases against 2k3 under the same premise really. Second, there are lots of plays for ball movement, picks off the ball, etc. The problem is that it's so hard to see what a play is SUPPOSED to do in game (actually impossible) so most people will run them wrong.

                                That is all, you make good points about Live from what I can tell. I enjoy the talks too but it seems pretty silly to even try to compare these two games.

                                Comment

                                Working...