Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

[Money99]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

There are rumours that 2K sports is developing a boxing game but there hasn't been an official word on that.
For now, if you own a 360 you'll only be playing Fight Night in regards to boxing games.

I'm in the same opinion as several others here that Fight Night is not even close to a boxing simulation.
In career mode they took out rankings. That's right - there are no rankings. All you have is a popularity meter and when it's full you get a shot at the belt. If you lose it, you'll have absolutely no idea who the champ is or who the top contenders are.
Also, there are far too many gimmicy punches. The flash KO or stun punch come to mind. Yours and your opponents attributes have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can KO someone or Stun them with a press of a button. It's the equivalent to a Touchdown button in Madden. No matter what QB you control if you press that button it results in a touchdown. Not very realistic.
The game does have stellar graphics and the controls are pretty good. I'm still with the buttons because if you've ever boxed it takes just as much effort to flick a jab compared to throwing an uppercut. But in this game, throwing an uppercut is a three point movement. Using analog sticks is revolutionary and smooth but it's still very flawed. They need to iron it out.

If you own a PS3 your chances of having a great boxing game are higher. The Victorious Boxers series is phenomenal. Not only is the boxing more realisitc but the career mode is unmatched by any sports game on the market. You have to control your diet, can watch tape of you upcoming opponent and have full control over your schedule. Not only that but there is every single Belt known to man in the game. Want to fight for the WBO. It's in there. Same with the IBF, WBA, WBC and countless other, country-specific belts. Want to move up in weight? No problem. Change your diet.
Want to work on your speed? Great. Change your training to reflect this. Even the gym you choose to fight out of has a bearing on your sparring partners and development.
And don't even get me started on the CAB. It's unbelievable. From trunk colours, to arm length, it's in there. Fight Night STILL doesn't offer the option for solid coloured trunks. People have cried for this since the first Knockout Kings came out.

Everyone here is praying that Fight Night Rd4 is made properly. We're hoping the Burger King is no longer a trainer. That ring entrances are realistic. That your stats, physics and type of punch actually dictate whether or not a flash KO, knockdown or stun punch occur instead of a button deciding it for you.
But as long as Kudo is in charge the chances of that happening are about as good as Lance Bass marrying Jessica Simpson.

At the very least rent the game and invite a buddy over to play with. It's a fun game to have a few beers with. But in no way, shape or form, is it even close to a realistic portrayal of the sweet science.

[thelwig14]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

There are rumours that 2K sports is developing a boxing game but there hasn't been an official word on that.
For now, if you own a 360 you'll only be playing Fight Night in regards to boxing games.

I'm in the same opinion as several others here that Fight Night is not even close to a boxing simulation.
In career mode they took out rankings. That's right - there are no rankings. All you have is a popularity meter and when it's full you get a shot at the belt. If you lose it, you'll have absolutely no idea who the champ is or who the top contenders are.
Also, there are far too many gimmicy punches. The flash KO or stun punch come to mind. Yours and your opponents attributes have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can KO someone or Stun them with a press of a button. It's the equivalent to a Touchdown button in Madden. No matter what QB you control if you press that button it results in a touchdown. Not very realistic.
The game does have stellar graphics and the controls are pretty good. I'm still with the buttons because if you've ever boxed it takes just as much effort to flick a jab compared to throwing an uppercut. But in this game, throwing an uppercut is a three point movement. Using analog sticks is revolutionary and smooth but it's still very flawed. They need to iron it out.

If you own a PS3 your chances of having a great boxing game are higher. The Victorious Boxers series is phenomenal. Not only is the boxing more realisitc but the career mode is unmatched by any sports game on the market. You have to control your diet, can watch tape of you upcoming opponent and have full control over your schedule. Not only that but there is every single Belt known to man in the game. Want to fight for the WBO. It's in there. Same with the IBF, WBA, WBC and countless other, country-specific belts. Want to move up in weight? No problem. Change your diet.
Want to work on your speed? Great. Change your training to reflect this. Even the gym you choose to fight out of has a bearing on your sparring partners and development.
And don't even get me started on the CAB. It's unbelievable. From trunk colours, to arm length, it's in there. Fight Night STILL doesn't offer the option for solid coloured trunks. People have cried for this since the first Knockout Kings came out.

Everyone here is praying that Fight Night Rd4 is made properly. We're hoping the Burger King is no longer a trainer. That ring entrances are realistic. That your stats, physics and type of punch actually dictate whether or not a flash KO, knockdown or stun punch occur instead of a button deciding it for you.
But as long as Kudo is in charge the chances of that happening are about as good as Lance Bass marrying Jessica Simpson.

At the very least rent the game and invite a buddy over to play with. It's a fun game to have a few beers with. But in no way, shape or form, is it even close to a realistic portrayal of the sweet science.

Very well said and very objective.

Adding on to what you said and being someone that supplements lifting with boxing, I never quite understood why everyone jocked the TPC so much. Like you said, all punches, more or less, are created equally. However in Fight Night, they are not. Punches should be matched with buttons and triggers and more concentration should be on angles, balance, and stamina.

[utexas]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

The flash KO's and stun punches are way overdone.I understand the concept, but it doesn't cost enough stamina when you have an opponent who throws it extensively

[MagicBucsWsoxFan]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

2 years ago people complain because there are no 1 punch knockdowns, now we have them and people still complain.


as many have said they are easy to block and counter. I do agree with Texas though, theres not enough stamina loss when someone throws them excessivly.

[Vince]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

Fight night just lacks depth. Plain and simple.

[Money99]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

2 years ago people complain because there are no 1 punch knockdowns, now we have them and people still complain.


as many have said they are easy to block and counter. I do agree with Texas though, theres not enough stamina loss when someone throws them excessivly.

But to add gimicy punches that neglect to take in attributes, force of punch and condition of the fighter to acheive that effect is assinine.
If people complained there wasn't enough scoring Madden how rediculous would it be if they added a "Touchdown" button?
In Victorious Boxers I can get flash knockdowns and KO's. But it's always based on the fighters stats and how the punch was landed. Case in point:
I KO'd an opponent when I countered his right hand with my most damaging shot. And because the guy came in bad shape all of this added up to a flash KO.
That could happen in real life too.
But in Fight Night Rd.3 it doesn't matter if you have no stamina left, if you only have 10 for power and your opponent has 100 for chin. If you succesfully land one of these gimmicy shots you can KO your opponent. That's complete BS and not even remotely realistic.

I could try to explain this to Kudo but that would be like trying to teach table manors to a donkey.
Next year we'll have even more gimmicy punches while whore after whore is added into the game and your corner consists of Harold and Kumar.

[BezO]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

Everyone here is praying that Fight Night Rd4 is made properly. We're hoping the Burger King is no longer a trainer. That ring entrances are realistic. That your stats, physics and type of punch actually dictate whether or not a flash KO, knockdown or stun punch occur instead of a button deciding it for you.

What I'd like to see...

• As many trainers as there are boxers
• Definitely realistic entrances. Have fighters announced once there in the ring, and put some security, promoters, trainers announcers in there too.
• Robes! I know styles are changing, but the majority of boxers still wear robes.
• Better career mode. Maybe they don't have rights to the belts, but I'll settle for the IBG, WBP, ect.
• More training options. Hitting the heavy bag for 30 seconds shouldn't equate to 6-8 weeks of training. Training could be like a beefed up mini-game. Make it optional, of course, but fighters train much, much more then they actually fight.
• More boxers! If they can't license more real ones, make some up like every other boxing game. I wouldn't mind playing with, or editing Toby "The Strike-man" Burns or "Wonderful" Willie Sagert. Just put some name recognition in for when I edit them.
• Oh yeah, let me create my own nic names in addition to choosing from a list.
• A ref. Could it be that difficult to code him to stay out of the way?
  
  It would be cool to see the ref escort a fighter to a nuetral coner before counting, seeing him count, wiping the gloves off, breaking clinches, giving warnings, checking cuts. And he could be another indicator for when a boxer is hurt... concentrating mainly on him, or even reminding a fighter he's not throwing punches. And the vocals, as long as there's some variety, would be cool to hear. "Break!" "Keep'em up!" "Watch the heads!" "Are you OK?"
• More realistic clinching and some inside fighting. Not every fighter is a boxer. Some are just physical, rough-house, telephone booth brawlers that stay on your chest the entire fight.
  
• Better footwork for fighters not named Ali. No reason Ali should have the best footwork in the game. And I shouldn't have to resort to brawling because my opponent wants to. There's no ring generalship in this game.
  
• Get rid of the silent mode when someone is hurt(or just make it optional). They did a good job allowing us to rely on the models for cuts, energy & such. Do the same for fighters being hurt. Make a guy stumble when he's dazed... fall back into the ropes... not be able to punch... shake the cob webbs loose. Maybe make it different for different stages of being hurt.
  
  And, though I'm glad fighters don't go into convulsions any more, they still look unconsious after EVERY knockdown. Give me some variety. Take a knee from a body shot. Fall on your *** from a flash knockdown. Stumble back and get saved from a knockdown by the ropes.
  
  Make the slow motion knockdown optional. I want to see my guy go down in real time.
  
  And there should be other ways to get hurt/kocked dwon besides gimmick punches & wearing someone down for 8 rounds. Powerful combinations, well timed counters, ect. And give me an option to take a knee when I'm hurt, instead of getting knocked out.
  
• And too often, a fighter that got hit with a vicious hook, is allowed to continue his punch & connect.

I'm sort of OK with the gimmick punches. I definitely feel there needs to be a way to throw pawing, snapping & haymaker type punches. Sometimes you paw with the jab & sometimes you throw a stiff one. Sometimes you slap someone with a quick hook & sometimes you try to take their head off.

Maybe what they could do is give fighters there actual specialty punch. If a boxer has a powerful left hook, make that his primary knockout punch, or his only haymaker.

[thelwig14]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

But to add gimicy punches that neglect to take in attributes, force of punch and condition of the fighter to acheive that effect is assinine.
If people complained there wasn't enough scoring Madden how rediculous would it be if they added a "Touchdown" button?
In Victorious Boxers I can get flash knockdowns and KO's. But it's always based on the fighters stats and how the punch was landed. Case in point:
I KO'd an opponent when I countered his right hand with my most damaging shot. And because the guy came in bad shape all of this added up to a flash KO.
That could happen in real life too.
But in Fight Night Rd.3 it doesn't matter if you have no stamina left, if you only have 10 for power and your opponent has 100 for chin. If you succesfully land one of these gimmicy shots you can KO your opponent. That's complete BS and not even remotely realistic.

I could try to explain this to Kudo but that would be like trying to teach table manors to a donkey.
Next year we'll have even more gimmicy punches while whore after whore is added into the game and your corner consists of Harold and Kumar.

Agreed. Out of curiosity, what VB version do you play?

[Money99]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

Agreed. Out of curiosity, what VB version do you play?

I owned VB1 but have played a little of VB2. Too bad my PS2 crapped out.

[MikeRo72]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

What I'd like to see...

• As many trainers as there are boxers
• Definitely realistic entrances. Have fighters announced once there in the ring, and put some security, promoters, trainers announcers in there too.
• Robes! I know styles are changing, but the majority of boxers still wear robes.
• Better career mode. Maybe they don't have rights to the belts, but I'll settle for the IBG, WBP, ect.
• More training options. Hitting the heavy bag for 30 seconds shouldn't equate to 6-8 weeks of training. Training could be like a beefed up mini-game. Make it optional, of course, but fighters train much, much more then they actually fight.
• More boxers! If they can't license more real ones, make some up like every other boxing game. I wouldn't mind playing with, or editing Toby "The Strike-man" Burns or "Wonderful" Willie Sagert. Just put some name recognition in for when I edit them.
• Oh yeah, let me create my own nic names in addition to choosing from a list.
• A ref. Could it be that difficult to code him to stay out of the way?
  
  It would be cool to see the ref escort a fighter to a nuetral coner before counting, seeing him count, wiping the gloves off, breaking clinches, giving warnings, checking cuts. And he could be another indicator for when a boxer is hurt... concentrating mainly on him, or even reminding a fighter he's not throwing punches. And the vocals, as long as there's some variety, would be cool to hear. "Break!" "Keep'em up!" "Watch the heads!" "Are you OK?"
• More realistic clinching and some inside fighting. Not every fighter is a boxer. Some are just physical, rough-house, telephone booth brawlers that stay on your chest the entire fight.
• Better footwork for fighters not named Ali. No reason Ali should have the best footwork in the game. And I shouldn't have to resort to brawling because my opponent wants to. There's no ring generalship in this game.
• Get rid of the silent mode when someone is hurt(or just make it optional). They did a good job allowing us to rely on the models for cuts, energy & such. Do the same for fighters being hurt. Make a guy stumble when he's dazed... fall back into the ropes... not be able to punch... shake the cob webbs loose. Maybe make it different for different stages of being hurt.
  
  And, though I'm glad fighters don't go into convulsions any more, they still look unconsious after EVERY knockdown. Give me some variety. Take a knee from a body shot. Fall on your *** from a flash knockdown. Stumble back and get saved from a knockdown by the ropes.
  
  Make the slow motion knockdown optional. I want to see my guy go down in real time.
  
  And there should be other ways to get hurt/kocked dwon besides gimmick punches & wearing someone down for 8 rounds. Powerful combinations, well timed counters, ect. And give me an option to take a knee when I'm hurt, instead of getting knocked out.
• And too often, a fighter that got hit with a vicious hook, is allowed to continue his punch & connect.

I'm sort of OK with the gimmick punches. I definitely feel there needs to be a way to throw pawing, snapping & haymaker type punches. Sometimes you paw with the jab & sometimes you throw a stiff one. Sometimes you slap someone with a quick hook & sometimes you try to take their head off.

Maybe what they could do is give fighters there actual specialty punch. If a boxer has a powerful left hook, make that his primary knockout punch, or his only haymaker.

[Blaxican8504]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

What I'd like to see...

• As many trainers as there are boxers
• Definitely realistic entrances. Have fighters announced once there in the ring, and put some security, promoters, trainers announcers in there too.
• Robes! I know styles are changing, but the majority of boxers still wear robes.
• Better career mode. Maybe they don't have rights to the belts, but I'll settle for the IBG, WBP, ect.
• More training options. Hitting the heavy bag for 30 seconds shouldn't equate to 6-8 weeks of training. Training could be like a beefed up mini-game. Make it optional, of course, but fighters train much, much more then they actually fight.
• More boxers! If they can't license more real ones, make some up like every other boxing game. I wouldn't mind playing with, or editing Toby "The Strike-man" Burns or "Wonderful" Willie Sagert. Just put some name recognition in for when I edit them.
• Oh yeah, let me create my own nic names in addition to choosing from a list.
• A ref. Could it be that difficult to code him to stay out of the way?
  
  It would be cool to see the ref escort a fighter to a nuetral coner before counting, seeing him count, wiping the gloves off, breaking clinches, giving warnings, checking cuts. And he could be another indicator for when a boxer is hurt... concentrating mainly on him, or even reminding a fighter he's not throwing punches. And the vocals, as long as there's some variety, would be cool to hear. "Break!" "Keep'em up!" "Watch the heads!" "Are you OK?"
• More realistic clinching and some inside fighting. Not every fighter is a boxer. Some are just physical, rough-house, telephone booth brawlers that stay on your chest the entire fight.
  
• Better footwork for fighters not named Ali. No reason Ali should have the best footwork in the game. And I shouldn't have to resort to brawling because my opponent wants to. There's no ring generalship in this game.
  
• Get rid of the silent mode when someone is hurt(or just make it optional). They did a good job allowing us to rely on the models for cuts, energy & such. Do the same for fighters being hurt. Make a guy stumble when he's dazed... fall back into the ropes... not be able to punch... shake the cob webbs loose. Maybe make it different for different stages of being hurt.
  
  And, though I'm glad fighters don't go into convulsions any more, they still look unconsious after EVERY knockdown. Give me some variety. Take a knee from a body shot. Fall on your *** from a flash knockdown. Stumble back and get saved from a knockdown by the ropes.
  
  Make the slow motion knockdown optional. I want to see my guy go down in real time.
  
  And there should be other ways to get hurt/kocked dwon besides gimmick punches & wearing someone down for 8 rounds. Powerful combinations, well timed counters, ect. And give me an option to take a knee when I'm hurt, instead of getting knocked out.
  
• And too often, a fighter that got hit with a vicious hook, is allowed to continue his punch & connect.

I'm sort of OK with the gimmick punches. I definitely feel there needs to be a way to throw pawing, snapping & haymaker type punches. Sometimes you paw with the jab & sometimes you throw a stiff one. Sometimes you slap someone with a quick hook & sometimes you try to take their head off.

Maybe what they could do is give fighters there actual specialty punch. If a boxer has a powerful left hook, make that his primary knockout punch, or his only haymaker.

[Complex]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

What I'd like to see...

• As many trainers as there are boxers
• Definitely realistic entrances. Have fighters announced once there in the ring, and put some security, promoters, trainers announcers in there too.
• Robes! I know styles are changing, but the majority of boxers still wear robes.
• Better career mode. Maybe they don't have rights to the belts, but I'll settle for the IBG, WBP, ect.
• More training options. Hitting the heavy bag for 30 seconds shouldn't equate to 6-8 weeks of training. Training could be like a beefed up mini-game. Make it optional, of course, but fighters train much, much more then they actually fight.
• More boxers! If they can't license more real ones, make some up like every other boxing game. I wouldn't mind playing with, or editing Toby "The Strike-man" Burns or "Wonderful" Willie Sagert. Just put some name recognition in for when I edit them.
• Oh yeah, let me create my own nic names in addition to choosing from a list.
• A ref. Could it be that difficult to code him to stay out of the way?
  
  It would be cool to see the ref escort a fighter to a nuetral coner before counting, seeing him count, wiping the gloves off, breaking clinches, giving warnings, checking cuts. And he could be another indicator for when a boxer is hurt... concentrating mainly on him, or even reminding a fighter he's not throwing punches. And the vocals, as long as there's some variety, would be cool to hear. "Break!" "Keep'em up!" "Watch the heads!" "Are you OK?"
• More realistic clinching and some inside fighting. Not every fighter is a boxer. Some are just physical, rough-house, telephone booth brawlers that stay on your chest the entire fight.
  
• Better footwork for fighters not named Ali. No reason Ali should have the best footwork in the game. And I shouldn't have to resort to brawling because my opponent wants to. There's no ring generalship in this game.
  
• Get rid of the silent mode when someone is hurt(or just make it optional). They did a good job allowing us to rely on the models for cuts, energy & such. Do the same for fighters being hurt. Make a guy stumble when he's dazed... fall back into the ropes... not be able to punch... shake the cob webbs loose. Maybe make it different for different stages of being hurt.
  
  And, though I'm glad fighters don't go into convulsions any more, they still look unconsious after EVERY knockdown. Give me some variety. Take a knee from a body shot. Fall on your *** from a flash knockdown. Stumble back and get saved from a knockdown by the ropes.
  
  Make the slow motion knockdown optional. I want to see my guy go down in real time.
  
  And there should be other ways to get hurt/kocked dwon besides gimmick punches & wearing someone down for 8 rounds. Powerful combinations, well timed counters, ect. And give me an option to take a knee when I'm hurt, instead of getting knocked out.
  
• And too often, a fighter that got hit with a vicious hook, is allowed to continue his punch & connect.

I'm sort of OK with the gimmick punches. I definitely feel there needs to be a way to throw pawing, snapping & haymaker type punches. Sometimes you paw with the jab & sometimes you throw a stiff one. Sometimes you slap someone with a quick hook & sometimes you try to take their head off.

Maybe what they could do is give fighters there actual specialty punch. If a boxer has a powerful left hook, make that his primary knockout punch, or his only haymaker.

as a fan of the sport for years, this is a good post. If I may add some things:

1. Tale of the tape presentation - It shows a pic of the fighter, height, weight, reach, record etc.

2. Remove/Remodel the parry feature - no fighter walks around with his arm glued to his head waiting on a punch. If a parry is used it should not be allowed to be held maybe only last a second and the his hands turn to normal.

3. Fighters with great power should be able to punch through your blocks. see Taylor vs Wright

4. What happened to training altering the look of your fighter?

5. Add another attribute which gives power to both hands but separately. Some boxers are known as two fisted. But most arent. Margarito is a good example, he has power in both hands. But like Vivian Harris just mainly has a great right hand. It would just add to the strategy.

5b. Same as above but for speed. some folks have fast hands but not feet. Paul Williams (30-0) is a good example. fast hands, but he doesnt dance around the ring either. So add foot speed and hand speed.

[Money99]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

Great list Bez0.
I'll add some of the things I'd like in a boxing game:

Static ratings
I've mentioned this on other boards but I'll go into it here a bit more. One thing that I've never liked about 95% of the boxing games out there is how your fighter starts off with a limited amount of attribute points that you dish out when creating your fighter. Through training they're awarded points to a specific attribute. This means that they'll start with poor hand speed, power, endurance etc but eventually max out. I don't like this system. Ali had his foot and hand speed from the beginning and his power hardly increased. Mike Tyson had amazing power in his first pro fight.
I think that a fighter should start off with a random rating in each of his categories that can only be improved upon slightly. Using a scale of 10 as an example, if you're fighter starts off with a power rating of 4 it shouldn't be able to move up very much. During training, your fighter will have to train properly so that he does enter the ring with his 4 but it shouldn't move up much more than that. How you "improve" is through experience. You're first few opponents will be slower and lacking in many areas getting you ready for the top contenders. So your first opponent might have a great jab but nothing else while you're second guy might have tremendous power but no speed or chin. The PC simulator "Title Fight Championship Boxing" has this system and I think it works great. Of course, this might be better used in a "Manager Mode" mode where you play the role as a Manager and you ahve to scout for fighters. As you improve as a Manager fighters with better ratings in all categories might want to sign with you. And besides, what a challenge it would be to get a fighter with low ratings to win a belt.

Popularity Meter
I like the idea of popularity affecting who and where you fight.
And I think there should be two popularity meters. One local and one national.

Using the idea of managing your own stable of fighters you could build your fighters reps/popularity up in your local region to the point where you might get a shot on a national tv broadcast like Boxing After Dark.

And, as a manager, you might demand that if they want one of your fighters on prime time TV then they'll have to give another one of your fighters a shot on the undercard.

Here's an example of how it might occur:

In your stable you have a number of fighters including a big, tough, plodding heavyweight who has a tremendous local following due to his propensity to knocking out other local tomato cans in a matter of minutes. But you also have a very skilled welterweight who has no popularity but is a great fighter that can't get any 'pub' or a shot at a real contender.
So along comes a promoter asking you to put your big, popular, heavyweight in against a true contender in your hometown on Boxing After Dark. The promoter wants this because he knows that the local hero will sell out the venue making the fight more exciting for viewers and therefore getting more press and tv time for his contender. He also likes this fight because he knows his guy will walk over your guy padding his record and standing.
As a manager, you know that your heavyweight is being used as fodder to help promote his opponent who is a ranked contender. So, to help balance out having one fighter get killed you force the promoter to put your very talented welterweight on the undercard thus giving him the necessary airtime to showcase his skills.

In the end, you sacrifice a fighter that really has no future but helps support your club because of his local standings but you might gain more longterm having your truly talented prospect get the pub he needs to get a shot at the top fighters and possibly a title.

That scenario could bring other consequences too. Your heavyweight might quit boxing or leave your gym because you let him get killed on national television and therefore sacrificing tickets sold at the next local card you put on.

Of course, all of this is way too deep for Kudo but I would like something like this in the game. If other sports games can have ultra deep recruiting engines and dynasty modes why can't a boxing game?

[MikeRo72]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

This thread has some great posts. Let's not however forget one important tidbit. As avid sim gamers we all know the importance is in the details....and any great boxing game would need this crack job jabbering incoherently. Larry Merchant baby! LOL

[Complex]

Re: Any good boxing games for the 360 out/on the way?

This thread has some great posts. Let's not however forget one important tidbit. As avid sim gamers we all know the importance is in the details....and any great boxing game would need this crack job jabbering incoherently. Larry Merchant baby! LOL

EA has usage of ESPN (which includes Joe Tessitore and Teddy Atlas), and The Contender show. That means we have commentators and a format for a training sessions. Why not just use what they have right in house?