Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

[Complex]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

This notion that PF is a sim is a little ridiculous. The game is NOT a true represenation of the sport. That does not mean that FN is, it just means that PF is not. It is different from FN in some aspects but definately not a sim. It is just different.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

This notion that PF is a sim is a little ridiculous. The game is NOT a true represenation of the sport. That does not mean that FN is, it just means that PF is not. It is different from FN in some aspects but definately not a sim. It is just different.

I will break up my analysis into a few different post. Here is the first.


Animations
Boxing has not been truly represented for the most part. The biggest issue that can be easily represented is with new animations. Very rarely do two boxers move the same, yet in most games 90% of the time all the fighters move the same. I know some guys move faster or hit harder but I am talking about things like the difference in moves. Does a Lennox Lewis jab look like a Ali jab? Why cant each weight class have various punch types in a particular class? In addition move this customization into CAB mode.

So you choose to make your boxer and you chose his face, weight etc. But then you get to chose stance, and then from that stance you choose your animaitons for each punch and/or move. So you pick southpaw and then a mummy stance, then fromo there you choose Jab. Under Jab there are 3-5 types of jabs all with different looks, power, speed, and recovery.

Here are a few:









Simply assign various speeds, power, and recovery time (to your normal stance) to each and that adds a whole other level of strategy.

Thoughts?

I agree with you and there are actually more ways to throw a jab than that. If smackdown vs raw can individualize each wrestler; boxers can be giving thier own personal style.

[N51_rob]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

I agree with you and there are actually more ways to throw a jab than that. If smackdown vs raw can individualize each wrestler; boxers can be giving thier own personal style.

Not trying to start a crazy back and forth here. But comparing boxing to wrestling as far as a video game isn't fair. Let say you wanna do a motion captire session with HHH you simply have to cantact the WWE and arrange it. He is under contract to them and you have bought the rights to them and thier personel.

Lets say you wanna do the same session with Floyd Mayweather. You now have to contact his management and come to terms on how much you are going to pay him. Then you have to do the same for every boxer that you want in you game. That is going to cost you more money than you will make from the sale of you game. No gaming company is gonna justify going into the red so that you can have authentic boxing styles.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Madden has no more unrealistic aspects than other games have. Always a few guys on OS who seem to be convinced that 2K has some exclusive lease on realism because of some fancy animation when don't they even come close to accurately portray open field movement and pursuit. Defenders follow you like a school of fish... BUT I DIGRESS...

Not at all, it's just that their priorities are different, and I respect that so long as there are other options. Which of now is no longer the case. I think you would have a hard time naming what is realistic about Madden.

[LP]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Not trying to start a crazy back and forth here. But comparing boxing to wrestling as far as a video game isn't fair. Let say you wanna do a motion captire session with HHH you simply have to cantact the WWE and arrange it. He is under contract to them and you have bought the rights to them and thier personel.

Lets say you wanna do the same session with Floyd Mayweather. You now have to contact his management and come to terms on how much you are going to pay him. Then you have to do the same for every boxer that you want in you game. That is going to cost you more money than you will make from the sale of you game. No gaming company is gonna justify going into the red so that you can have authentic boxing styles.

It wouldn't be that hard for several "athletes" to recreate boxers' movements. It was done in NBA 2k. Not every player mo-capped their own sig shots. It was done by what 2k called "athletes." You would think it would be easier to do several punches for 30 boxers than it would be to do 300 jump shots. You would need maybe 4 "professional" boxers, you wouldn't need the big names to come in and do their own.

[N51_rob]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

It wouldn't be that hard for several "athletes" to recreate boxers' movements. It was done in NBA 2k. Not every player mo-capped their own sig shots. It was done by what 2k called "athletes." You would think it would be easier to do several punches for 30 boxers than it would be to do 300 jump shots.

You raise a great point that I didn't know. I don't really play basketball games and had no idea. So I learned somthing and I stand corrected.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Interesting analysis from Complex. I pose this question though, was NBA 2k not a sim prior to them implementing signature style?

I think we all realize that PF is not close to being a perfect simulation boxing game, but right now it's the closest thing we have.

[Complex]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Interesting analysis from Complex. I pose this question though, was NBA 2k not a sim prior to them implementing signature style?

I think we all realize that PF is not close to being a perfect simulation boxing game, but right now it's the closest thing we have.

I just do not agree. Boxers Road 2 and now Ippop Fighting Spirits on the PSP are both better IMO.

Not knocking PF but its just not up to snuff.

[Mossfan8480]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

The answer to this question is a relatively simple one. Those who truly appreciate boxing as a sport on the majority don't play video games. So the makers of the game try to cater to the spectacle of the sport as opposed to the art.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

All the complaining on every site and I am a member of about 13, is the non sim approach to boxing. Boxing gaming is definitely not minor as some of you think. I investigate before I talk and why do you think EA is coming out with 2 different type of game? One is arcadey....the other sim(hopefully)

Here an article I got from an Smackdown vs raw site...it's an interview with a developer.
THQ.AU: How do you capture the look and feel of the real WWE in SmackDown vs. Raw 2008?

Chihaya: In America we have a wrestling ring, which the same size as a WWE ring, which we use in the studio for motion capture. We even have the same WWE ramp, so we can mo-cap the entrance scenes and capture them in their entirety. At first we used professional actors - they were very good but they don't have the same muscle mass as the wrestlers so now we use actual wrestlers.

The same thing can be done with boxers.Heck they can add boxers that fight like certain individuals and let us edit them.

[Complex]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

All the complaining on every site and I am a member of about 13, is the non sim approach to boxing. Boxing gaming is definitely not minor as some of you think. I investigate before I talk and why do you think EA is coming out with 2 different type of game? One is arcadey....the other sim(hopefully)

Here an article I got from an Smackdown vs raw site...it's an interview with a developer.
THQ.AU: How do you capture the look and feel of the real WWE in SmackDown vs. Raw 2008?

Chihaya: In America we have a wrestling ring, which the same size as a WWE ring, which we use in the studio for motion capture. We even have the same WWE ramp, so we can mo-cap the entrance scenes and capture them in their entirety. At first we used professional actors - they were very good but they don't have the same muscle mass as the wrestlers so now we use actual wrestlers.

The same thing can be done with boxers.Heck they can add boxers that fight like certain individuals and let us edit them.

That is my whole point. Put in the movements, let us mix and match them to create who we want.

[mr_president]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

The answer to this question is a relatively simple one. Those who truly appreciate boxing as a sport on the majority don't play video games. So the makers of the game try to cater to the spectacle of the sport as opposed to the art.

i would love to know where you get that info because i have never seen/heard of any evidence of boxing fans not playing video games??

[SHAKYR]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

i would love to know where you get that info because i have never seen/heard of any evidence of boxing fans not playing video games??

I was wondering the same thing. I have seen site after site with die-hard boxing fans who play videogame saddoboxing.com ,boxingscene.com,Title Bout Championship Boxing( http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/tb/ ). I can go on and on. Do your research.

[Chaos81]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Okay, I just quickly glanced through this thread, so my apologizes if this was already said.

Why are boxing games held to a lower level a realism? In my opinion that's quite simple. How many people here have played football, basketball, baseball, or hockey in some form? Even if it's just shooting hoops by yourself, throwing a football back and forth with some friends and so on, I'd say almost everybody has done it at one point or another. That said, how many of us have actually boxed, or for that matter even been in a real fight, and not just a little middle school spat? Not near as many.

That to me is why you see such a difference. Everyone can relate to the main sports, most people can't relate to boxing.

[mr_president]

Re: Why are boxing games held to a lower standard of realism?

Okay, I just quickly glanced through this thread, so my apologizes if this was already said.

Why are boxing games held to a lower level a realism? In my opinion that's quite simple. How many people here have played football, basketball, baseball, or hockey in some form? Even if it's just shooting hoops by yourself, throwing a football back and forth with some friends and so on, I'd say almost everybody has done it at one point or another. That said, how many of us have actually boxed, or for that matter even been in a real fight, and not just a little middle school spat? Not near as many.

That to me is why you see such a difference. Everyone can relate to the main sports, most people can't relate to boxing.

sorry for this but:

....so are you saying the madden game plays the way it does because people cant relate to football?? because that game is just as fundamentaly broken as boxing games have been??

the fundamentals of the sport should remain intact if your trying to represent said sport in a video game.