Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

[Money99]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

Read this in Dan Rafaels' column about Taylors corner going into the 12.



Also interesting was the fact that the British judge at the fight had the fight 106-102 in Froch's favor. Judging in boxing is the biggest joke in the sport. You can't look at that fight subjectivly and come out with a 106-102 for Froch going into the 12th, not if you claim to be a boxing fan. Take nothing away from the man he won the fight and deserves all the credit in the world as taking the late rounds were a huge part of his game, plan.

I'm still not sure why there was a British judge at that fight. His score alone shows how fixed boxing can seem.
(His score was still better than the female judges card of Holyfield-Lewis I)

They should find the best 15 judges out there and make them judge all the championship fights.
Hell, give Mills Lane the job of hand-picking them or make him supreme judge himself.

[JayBee74]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

For all the criticism of Taylor (and he certainly deserves some) how much did the first Pavlik fight affect his psyche? Sure he bounced back in the 2nd fight, but this is a guy who beat crafty Bernard Hopkins in two tight decisions.

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

This ticked me off when I heard about this...I always liked the sport but I didn't really start paying attention to it until 2006 and watching JTs fight with Winky. JT is a standup guy and my fav fighter..Its been tough to watch his recent struggles

[Money99]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

For all the criticism of Taylor (and he certainly deserves some) how much did the first Pavlik fight affect his psyche? Sure he bounced back in the 2nd fight, but this is a guy who beat crafty Bernard Hopkins in two tight decisions.

Excellent point Jaybee.
You can look throughout history and see many fighters who weren't the same after a loss or war. Perhaps this is the same thing that happened to J.T.

You can't discount his win and draw against Hopkins. Nobody had been able to beat this guy in over a decade and yet J.T. came away without an "L" in two consecutive fights against this legend. You have to give credit for that.
He also went the distance with Pavlik in the 2nd bout. Not to many people have done that against the Ghost at 160.

[fistofrage]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

For all the criticism of Taylor (and he certainly deserves some) how much did the first Pavlik fight affect his psyche? Sure he bounced back in the 2nd fight, but this is a guy who beat crafty Bernard Hopkins in two tight decisions.

I said this a while back...Taylor/Pavlik I took ALOT out of both of those fighter. Neither have been the same and probably won't ever be.

[JayBee74]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

I said this a while back...Taylor/Pavlik I took ALOT out of both of those fighter. Neither have been the same and probably won't ever be.

I'm wondering especially about Pavlik.

[fistofrage]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

I'm wondering especially about Pavlik.

The Taylor fight took a ton out of him. He was out on his feet and just fighting on instinct in that 1st fight.

The second fight, you could tell neither of them wanted to take the damge they had in the 1st fight.

Then Pavlik looked silly against Hopkins. Although word is he was battling a respetory infection, but he wouldn't have won that fight anyway.

2 years ago, I would have said that there wasn't a Middleweight that could bang 12 rounds with Pavlik and survive. Now, I'm afraid that I don't see Pavlik able to bang 12 rounds and survive.

I wonder if Pavlik could fight at 147? I don't know where he'd take the weight off from, but he can't bang with larger middleweights any more.

[JayBee74]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

The Taylor fight took a ton out of him. He was out on his feet and just fighting on instinct in that 1st fight.

The second fight, you could tell neither of them wanted to take the damge they had in the 1st fight.

Then Pavlik looked silly against Hopkins. Although word is he was battling a respetory infection, but he wouldn't have won that fight anyway.

2 years ago, I would have said that there wasn't a Middleweight that could bang 12 rounds with Pavlik and survive. Now, I'm afraid that I don't see Pavlik able to bang 12 rounds and survive.

I wonder if Pavlik could fight at 147? I don't know where he'd take the weight off from, but he can't bang with larger middleweights any more.

Hmmm, that has yet to be proven. I mean what middleweight would be favored against him right now besides possibly A.Abraham? . No way Pavlik could fight successfully at 147.

[fistofrage]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

Hmmm, that has yet to be proven. I mean what middleweight would be favored against him right now besides possibly A.Abraham? . No way Pavlik could fight successfully at 147.

Yeah, the MW ranks are weak right now, he would be favored against all MW's most likely. He fights Mora on 6/27. No real chance of Pavlik getting rocked in that fight. We'll have to see how he does when he fights someone with some power. That will tell me alot.

[marq]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

Saw the fight live and it was outstanding. I was rooting for JT and sad to see that his stamina issues are still prevalent. They even talked about how he changed his diet, sleeping habits and training to deal with the issue but it showed up once again. Would not be surprised if they fought again.

Now Pavlik is a bit different. I believe he just isn't the same fighter north of 160. His second fight with Taylor was at 166 and of course he was north of 166 against BHop. He is not as quick above 160 and his power doesn't seem to translate for whatever reason. He will be fine if he stays at 160.

[Complex]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

Pavlik has taken on top comp for his last few fights, and even Mora is a good opponent. I don't think those fights took too much out of him. He is young also. He can stay at 160 and defend those titles of his. Abraham would be a good fight, or Felix Strum to unify the belts. Pavlik is a guy that needs to walk around with belts to warrant top dollars. There is also a fight with Williams if he wants it too.

No way Pavlik goes to 147 or even 154. He was complaining about 160 a fight or two ago. Pavlik could go up to 168, just depends on the opponent he fights. Hopkins and Taylor are tough opponents at 160, 168, 175 or anywhere in between. I can't put too much stock in those fights to guage Pavlik. No one looks spectacular against Hopkins. Heck even Taylor, makes you look bad for the first 6 rounds of a fight.

[MizzouBravesFan]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

LOL Gus Johnson, as usual, was epic on the call...thought his head was going to explode.

[jbdeuce]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

To me...Taylor was done when he fired Pat Burns. He had 4 eyes in his corner at that time. Ozell Nelson is his father figure and Burns trained him for the opponent. So even with Nelson all in his ear he still had Burns there to say "Thats not working do this" That's why he struggled with Manny Steward and now with Nelson because its one guy training him and telling him everything. Thats not the case for everyone just Taylor in my opinion. One guy worked for Winky Wright, Freddy Roach and Manny works fine but they even added Mike. So more eyes always works. You have to be a very good trainer to do it by yourself because one guy can't see everything. Just my opinion.

[deaduck]

Re: Carl Frosh Stuns Jermain Taylor

Taylor might just be one of those guys who has a "wall" in his conditioning and no change in the world will get him past it.

You hear about it more in collegiate wrestling but I'm sure it exists in any athlete.