My Legacy Mode wishlist...

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  • parker002
    MVP
    • Oct 2004
    • 1465

    #1

    My Legacy Mode wishlist...

    1) Get rid of the training games.

    At worst, people find them impossibly hard. The frustration of not being able to do them, combined with the dread that you won't be able to compete at later stages of the Legacy really puts a damper on the excitement.

    At best, people (ie. me) find them far too easy. After 15 fights or so, the training games become a necessary evil and really detract from the pre-fight drama because they're so boring and monotonous. They also have another effect, which leads me to...

    2) Get rid of the stat progression altogether.

    If you're one of the people that find the training too hard, you likely never finished a Legacy, or if you did, you did it on a difficulty level easy enough that it wouldn't mattered if you trained or not, so this isn't for you.

    For those of us that found the training games easy, stat progression is a joke. By the end of all 3 of my Legacies, I had over 90 in every stat. I wasn't a counterpuncher, or a stick-and-move guy, or a knockout artist. I was a superhuman hybrid of ALL 3. It's far too easy to dominate in the late Legacy because not only are all of your stats high, you don't really have any strengths or weaknesses that you need to plan around. Which leads to...

    3) Scouting reports!

    For all of the ridiculosity that is the stat database in this game (it literally keeps track of everything), it's overdone. Yes, we want "sim" but we don't want a mathematical simulation, we want a GAME. When I click on my next opponent, or when I'm scheduling a fight and looking for somebody to fight, all I see are numbers. I want to see INFO. Is he a southpaw? What are his tendencies? Is he going to run away? Or is he going to come at me fists flying? Does he have damage previous fights that I can exploit? For all of the talk about "styles win fights" the styles in this game are horribly shallow and poorly implemented (see #2).

    4) Upgrade the email system, we don't run terminals anymore.

    I'm not sure why they even have this. It's a series of "Hey, something happened, hit the B button 6 times and open the Legacy menu and wade through stats to see if you can find something cool!" When a belt changes hands, tell us who it was. Who did he fight? What was the outcome - a decision or a KO? This one should be VERY easy to do.

    5)Undercards - integrate the Legacy calendar with the in-game action.

    If you got a fight night on the calendar and open it up, it lists all the fights happening at a certain location that night. It's cool to see who else is fighting on your card. The atmosphere would be SO much better if that carried over to the ring action. But as it stands now, every fight I fight is the main event. There's nothing like checking the calendar the night of my fight to see that I, the #31 Flyweight, am fighting on the undercard of a televised heavyweight championship bout, only to hear Joe and Ted welcome me to tonight's Main Event.

    6) Fix the little cosmetic bugs.
    Has anybody fought Donny Li, or Donny Kim, or Lee Kim, or Hugh Li? They all look the same (Asian) and they're ALL from Atlanta. Weird.

    For whatever reason, the game does a really GOOD job of matching ethnic names with faces. And no, I'm not being racist, I'm just being honest. Guys named Alvarez aren't generally African-American in the game, and guys named Kim usually look Korean. Unfortunately, the game DOESN'T do a good job of picking names in general. In one of my legacies, there were ELEVEN guys with the last name Li in the top 50, in MY weight class alone. And of course, they're all from either Atlanta or Baltimore.

    6) Unlockable items don't have to be stupid.

    Instead of making me beat Cotto to be able to wear his trunks, make me win fights to get an endorsement contract with Reebok. Little things like this really improve the immersion aspect of the game. I REALLY want those new two-tone Grant gloves. So make me buy them. Or better yet, let me get the attention of a marketing exec and Grant and let them give them to me.

    7) Going back to #1 and #2 above.

    I would really like to see 2 things replace the pre-fight training mechanic. One of them would be permanent and the other transitive.

    First, I'd like to be able to hire trainers. Certain trainers might give a bonus to hand speed, some might improve defense, but none of them would improve everything. Make the player pick and choose how they want to fight. Even better - let the player hire a different trainer SOLELY because he knows that to win the next fight (see #3 above) he needs to improve his hand speed.

    Of course, better trainers would cost more money, so fights would need to have purses. The enhancement effects of a trainer would be permanent, as long as the trainer is retained. There are other things that could be added in the "permanent" boost category, but trainers would be the big one.

    On the transitive side, you could add per-fight bonuses using nutrition, workouts, and several other things. More importantly, this mechanic could be used to give the game a real STORY, instead of just making it an integer-based progression to 100%. If I decide to go out partying instead of hitting the gym, give me a popularity boost and dock me some stamina points. Maybe all the beer causes me to not make weight? But by failing to make weight, I get the chance to book a different fight worth more $$$. You could even have different choices for workouts, like speed vs. strength, but make them give bonuses that go away after the fight.

    That's all I have for now. Please feel free to add to it.
    Last edited by parker002; 11-05-2009, 11:16 AM.
    Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...
  • ausar72
    MVP
    • Jul 2002
    • 1217

    #2
    Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

    Well thought out!

    My additions would be to the Career Mode. Specifically...


    1.) Being able to create and control multiple fighters (mulitple weight classes) in one career mode. and by extension create some sort of online career mode, where you and your friends could compete in the same weight division (or different) in the same career mode online.

    2.) Control a stable of fighters. Along the lines of the multiple fighters in a career, have a create-a-gym mode, where all of your boxers train and fight out of.

    3.) At the end of a career, have your boxer retire and become a trainer. Once your career is over, go into some sort of new creation screen, to continue with a new young up-and-coming boxer.

    4.) Start careers with a little more variety. Allow boxers, just starting out to be really good at one aspect of the game, yet have weaknesses that would have to be developed moreso, throughout their career. This is actually a more realistic way to handle the beginning of a career, vs. starting out with low ratings across the board. Think Tyson, coming out and dominating the sport with lighting quick hand/head speed, and killer power, but lacking some other key element that can be exploited, uless you develop that skill throughout your career, as you move up the ranks.

    5.) Olympic amateur career-mode. Add an Olympics training and competition component to the amateur portion of the career.

    Comment

    • drewbaby1414
      Rookie
      • Oct 2008
      • 438

      #3
      Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

      Loving the thread.

      1. Get rid of training games. Have a training system like they have in VB 2.
      2. Get rid of the stat building. Make it optional.
      3. Include all weight classes
      4. Player gets older and looks older.
      5. More fighters...To many times are you fighting the same guys over and over.
      6. More realistic records for the fighters...It was OK this year but could be better.
      7. Add a "My Player"/"Super Star"/ Story mode to the dynasty and with a few diifferent directions you can take. This is optional to open ended dynasty
      8. Real belts would be nice and more belts like in VB2
      9. Implement promoters and politics of the sport.

      Really just make the career mode like a big budget version of VB2.

      Oh and add one punch KO's.
      "Don't complain about the show if the ticket is free."

      Comment

      • parker002
        MVP
        • Oct 2004
        • 1465

        #4
        Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

        Originally posted by ausar72
        4.) Start careers with a little more variety. Allow boxers, just starting out to be really good at one aspect of the game, yet have weaknesses that would have to be developed moreso, throughout their career. This is actually a more realistic way to handle the beginning of a career, vs. starting out with low ratings across the board. Think Tyson, coming out and dominating the sport with lighting quick hand/head speed, and killer power, but lacking some other key element that can be exploited, uless you develop that skill throughout your career, as you move up the ranks.
        This.

        When I was thinking about styles and such, this is exactly what I was thinking about.

        They need to come up with some way for fighters to get SMARTER instead of stronger/faster/etc.
        Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...

        Comment

        • parker002
          MVP
          • Oct 2004
          • 1465

          #5
          Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

          Originally posted by drewbaby1414
          4. Player gets older and looks older.
          Great one.

          Originally posted by drewbaby1414
          6. More realistic records for the fighters...It was OK this year but could be better.
          Excellent. I can't believe I missed this one! Too many DRAWS.
          Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...

          Comment

          • SHAKYR
            MVP
            • Nov 2003
            • 1795

            #6
            Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

            Where were you when I was gathering the Fight Night Round 5 wishlist? I sent a Document to the EA Fight Night Round 4 Producers already.


            This is a photo of the Wishlist index that Brizzo had taken to let me know he had recieved the wishlist.



            The Document is 35 pages long with CAB Document by itself. http://www.filepanda.com/file/fcbbni10u1g5/


            Post your ideas here because the producers still go to the Feedback and Wishlist Forums
            Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.
            Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

            Comment

            • SHAKYR
              MVP
              • Nov 2003
              • 1795

              #7
              Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

              I hate how a boxer loses points from stuff that most fighters have naturally....like strength,chin, heart,etc; .
              Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

              Comment

              • parker002
                MVP
                • Oct 2004
                • 1465

                #8
                Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                Originally posted by SHAKYR
                Where were you when I was gathering the Fight Night Round 5 wishlist?
                Playing the game.

                You put the wishlist together too soon.
                Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...

                Comment

                • SHAKYR
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 1795

                  #9
                  Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                  Originally posted by parker002
                  Playing the game.

                  You put the wishlist together too soon.
                  I'm almost an expert at this and I have direct contact with the producers; when it was sent was the ideal time to put the wishlist together...the producers are in the planning stages now. Many fans wait until it's too late to put ideas and suggestions in the game.

                  Fans wait until they see an advertisement or the game is announced publicly. I use my inside contact to find out when the time is right and now was. The producers asked for the wishlist and I posted here to let fans know a month and a half ago.

                  Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.

                  Originally posted by EA_MikeMahar

                  Apologies for entering the fray so late ...
                  The development team have been in constant contact with members of the community team via email but I'd like to take the time to publicly thank each of you…especially our forum mods…for contributing to the wish list.
                  I’ve read the doc multiple times and keep a printed copy on my desk which other dev team members borrow and review.
                  We appreciate your passion for the game and we’re striving to improve and deliver as much of what you’re asking for as possible.
                  That said, I think everyone should keep in mind it is unlikely we’ll be able to deliver every feature being requested…but we’ll try our best.

                  For the record…
                  There is another Fight Night 4 DLC Pack and Title Update coming out that addresses some of the issues brought up in this forum.
                  I CAN’T give you the exact details and dates yet but the development team has not dropped FN4 and moved on.

                  Thanks again for your suggestions....keep them coming.

                  -Mike
                  Last edited by SHAKYR; 11-07-2009, 12:39 AM.
                  Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

                  Comment

                  • parker002
                    MVP
                    • Oct 2004
                    • 1465

                    #10
                    Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                    Originally posted by SHAKYR
                    I'm almost an expert at this and I have direct contact with the producers; when it was sent was the ideal time to put the wishlist together...the producers are in the planning stages now. Many fans wait until it's too late to put ideas and suggestions in the game.
                    Because most fans are STILL PLAYING the game when the developer has already moved on to their next paycheck. That's just the way it is.

                    Many of the things that need fixed in Legacy mode aren't noticed until very late in the Legacy, and some of them don't become apparent until you've played the mode 2 or even more times.

                    I understand what you're saying, but it's just not practical. Nobody is interested in talking much about Fight Night Round FIVE when they're still knee deep in Fight Night Round FOUR.
                    Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...

                    Comment

                    • SHAKYR
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 1795

                      #11
                      Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                      Originally posted by parker002
                      Because most fans are STILL PLAYING the game when the developer has already moved on to their next paycheck. That's just the way it is.

                      Many of the things that need fixed in Legacy mode aren't noticed until very late in the Legacy, and some of them don't become apparent until you've played the mode 2 or even more times.

                      I understand what you're saying, but it's just not practical. Nobody is interested in talking much about Fight Night Round FIVE when they're still knee deep in Fight Night Round FOUR.

                      It is practical because the producers are in the planning stages and want wishes, suggestions and ideas now and to assure that ideas got in the game we sent them.... I communicate with them weekly.
                      Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

                      Comment

                      • Money99
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 12695

                        #12
                        Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                        Brizzo mentioned at the Community Event that he'd like to do away with the 'start at 50, train, collect points, end at 90' whole dynamic.

                        He also used Tyson as an example of this. He recognizes that fighters start their careers already possessing world class skills in some, or many categories.
                        Did Tyson start at 55 speed and power, and had to build them up? No. In his first pro fight he could already throw lightning quick punches and power to boot.

                        He also brought up the point that it didn't matter if you started at 50 OV because you were fighting other fighters who were 50 OV. So basically your competition was always equal to you. It really makes the cliched way of building up your fighter redundant and useless.

                        So they'd like to institute a system where your fighter will already be good, or great, at certain aspects. So as you move up the ladder you'll start by fighting 1-tool opponents, then move to 2 or 3-tools opponents, until you've finally reached contender or title status so you're competing against 4 or 5-tool fighters.

                        The problem with this is how to implement it. Do you have a random generator where you get lucky, or unlucky with drawing a fighter who's loaded or lacks in several categories.

                        My opinion is that WE'RE paying $70 for a game so give us the choice. If I want the next coming of Sonny Liston or Ray Robinson then let me.
                        Or, if the game's gotten too easy, I'll randomly generate a fighter who is only great at 1 or 2 things so it's a greater challenge.
                        But this is also where running a gym or a stable of fighters gives the game more angles. Control a wide range of fighters. Some might be bad, others average or some great.

                        Personally, I'd love to see the ability to start your own gym with 3 or 4 random fighters to manage. And as you build more champions or contenders, you'll have better fighters (Olympic medalists, top prospects) knock on your door to take them on.

                        Regarding training/preparation, I was a bit disappointed when Brizzo said that he didn't want to institute a system where you had to manage your diet. He said people hate to do that in real life so why force them to do it in a video game? I understand that to a degree. But then how do you explain games like the Sims or Facebook Farmville? I'm sure nobody really wants to deal with chores or running a farm and yet in the virtual world these games are very popular.
                        You could make it simple too. Maybe you have to hire a dietitian who does it for you. Or maybe you have fighters in your stable that are lazy forcing you to adjust what weight division they need to be in. You won't even have to pick meals or watch their calories. The CPU does it while you handle the repercussions.

                        There's a lot of things like this that can be implemented. I love the idea of scouting that was brought up earlier, as an example.

                        I hope with 2 years off they can put a lot of this in Round 5.

                        Comment

                        • Complex
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 2494

                          #13
                          Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                          Ive been asking for the death of the +point generator for a while. How do you implement you ask? Just do it. The hard part is how do you do it without it being a cheese fest online, or making one style greater than another.
                          Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/complex219

                          Comment

                          • Money99
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 12695

                            #14
                            Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                            Originally posted by SHAKYR
                            I hate how a boxer loses points from stuff that most fighters have naturally....like strength,chin, heart,etc; .
                            I agree Poetic. Things like chin or heart should be a constant.

                            Although, there are times where certain fighters found themselves being floored a lot more after a tough fight or loss. Guys like Fernando Vargas and Sugar Ray Leonard come to mind.
                            They went many fights without ever touching the canvas and then after a particularly tough fight they couldn't stop being floored.
                            But that might be tough to program so it'd be best to keep iron chinned guys always tough to knock down.

                            Comment

                            • parker002
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 1465

                              #15
                              Re: My Legacy Mode wishlist...

                              Originally posted by SHAKYR

                              It is practical because the producers are in the planning stages and want wishes, suggestions and ideas now and to assure that ideas got in the game we sent them.... I communicate with them weekly.
                              Dude, I'm glad for you. You do something alot of us don't get to do. But frankly, you sound like the developers. You don't sound like a consumer. Brizzo and company have taken a step that most developers nowadays don't - they've extended an invitation to the community to express their ideas and they're actually LISTENING. I would suggest you take a page out of their book, because right now you're acting pretty high and mighty and that's not fair.

                              As for the wishlist itself - the timeline is not practical at all, it's NECESSARY. There's a big difference. The producers are in the planning stages and want suggestions because that's the cold, hard fact about development cycles. Fight Night Round 4 is done - sure they've probably got a couple of guys working on DLC, but that's not where they make their money. They make their money by releasing a new game, so OF COURSE they're already in the planning stages.

                              If you think expecting a multitude of PLAYERS to start thinking about the NEXT game 90 days after the release of the current game is practical, you're not thinking it through. Just looking at this forum is evidence of that - there's guys here that have been playing online since release date and JUST NOW started playing Legacy mode. They're not equipped to offer suggestions about how to improve that portion of the game. By the same token, I don't play online, so I'm not capable of submitting ideas there.

                              And like I said, some of the things I've suggested don't become apparent until you've played through Legacy multiple times. That takes REAL WORLD time. Once you tweak sliders, play online, and then FINALLY get into Legacy mode, sending a wishlist 90 days after release is absolutely too soon.

                              By releasing the wishlist that early, you've alienated a portion of offline players. Of course, I don't really find that surprising. Pretty much every improvement to the game they've made so far affect online mode only. And given the emphasis on OWC, it seems that's the direction they want to move the game anyway. I don't blame them - it seems like 80% or more of the people here are playing this game online more than offline, and about 50% play online almost exclusively.
                              Recovering slider addict...Fight Night Round 4 caused me to relapse...

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