Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

I'm sorry, but if you are a Game Changer I don't think you should be abusing flaws in a game. That almost makes it look like they wanted these in. Helped set up the game so it would be that way. We don't know the level of involvement. So when we do see them use things like this, it does irk you.

I played a Game Changer and he used almost every unrealistic combo in the book. Most were good combos, but a lot were just hit stun/reaction advantage taking ones.

That's just my opinion on it, and why I believe the premise of this thread is solid.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Serious question...one of the biggest complaints with UFC 1 on the forums was lack of stopping power.

Now there seems to be a big backlash against hit stun in principle.

Aren't they the same thing?

If they are the same thing, it would be very helpful if people stopped with the sarcastic, Mortal Kombat hit stun comments, and focused on the real problem. And acknowledge that hit stun is necessary and realistic.

If they aren't the same thing, I'd really like to know what the difference is.

[MaccaC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Serious question...one of the biggest complaints with UFC 1 on the forums was lack of stopping power.

Now there seems to be a big backlash against hit stun in principle.

Aren't they the same thing?

If they are the same thing, it would be very helpful if people stopped with the sarcastic, Mortal Kombat hit stun comments, and focused on the real problem. And acknowledge that hit stun is necessary and realistic.

If they aren't the same thing, I'd really like to know what the difference is.

This blows my mind that I think you might be asking this almost sarcastically?

Before I address that I'll put it out there that I actually really like the current striking system, I really really like it.

However it's not perfect (nothing ever is) and it definitely isn't the same as having "stopping power" what people want when they ask for stopping power is risk vs reward, timing importance and the ability to punish and outplay someone, the current system allows that in microcosms of "ok I've parried you now I get to strike".

You guys probably don't like hearing it because you didn't work on the game but EAMMA captured this really well, someone misses a flying knee and you wait until they land and catch them with a perfect hook 9/10 they'd be in trouble, mistime a leg kick and you'd be taken down, get to predictable with you're striking and you'd be countered in someway that always had a significant impact.

The one that always stands out was if you we're predictable with you're takedowns / spammed them it was easy to punish, you'd dive in get a counter knee to the head and be on the verge of being knocked out.

It's my general feeling that people want to experience more of a chess match with the striking, that when you work to make someone miss or commit to a big strike you can punish them in a big way, this does feel more like an arcade beat em up at times just not to the same extremes.

With all that being said without the hitstun leading to high impact damage the stand up would be terrible, no one would know who was going to get hurt or when.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Serious question...one of the biggest complaints with UFC 1 on the forums was lack of stopping power.

Now there seems to be a big backlash against hit stun in principle.

Aren't they the same thing?

If they are the same thing, it would be very helpful if people stopped with the sarcastic, Mortal Kombat hit stun comments, and focused on the real problem. And acknowledge that hit stun is necessary and realistic.

If they aren't the same thing, I'd really like to know what the difference is.

It isn't the hit stuns/reactions and the multiplier alone that make these feel like Mortal Kombat combos. It is the ability to duplicate the same results every time. That is what makes it feel so arcade. If the hit stuns/reactions were more random, I don't think this would be a problem. As well as making some combos just not as powerful. I'm sorry, but you aren't going to throw a six piece and top it off with a spinning head kick.

I love how the hit stuns/reactions play out when you aren't abusing them.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yMlv0a61WTQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

This blows my mind that I think you might be asking this almost sarcastically?

Not being sarcastic at all.

Hit stun in the game is when you play a hit reaction that stops your current action, and prevents any new action from starting for a certain number of frames.

Stopping power, or the ability to punish someone through timing or a good setup or whatever, is...what? a hit reaction that stops their current action and prevents them from starting a new action for a certain number of frames?

[Haz____]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Obviously everybody is entitled to their opinion. The main reason you're getting backlash is not because you do not like the videos MartialMind posts.
People are giving you their opinion about how they feel about your initial post.
Saying that somebody is posting videos on how to cheat or that they're giving people "cheat codes" is not an opinion. That is an accusation. I would also assume that you're receiving backlash because a lot of the community may have respect for him as a gamer. He may be a "game changer" but he does not divulge information that the developers have not authorized him to give and the game changers are not part of the EA team. They're there specifically for one reason. They are fans of the game and sport that have been a very vocal part of the community and EA wants to gain as much information from the fans as possible to make a great game.
The ideas that they give to EA are not instantly implemented. They're considered and ultimately EA takes them into consideration and decided what ideas are useful and which ideas they are not able to use all together.
I personally like the videos he posts and will watch them from time to time but by no means use them to "cheat". I use them as a fighter training for a fight uses tips from their coach. If I like the idea and am able to utilize it to improve my game, I will practice it. For the most part, like most people I'm sure, I still play how I want to play but just look for more in depth techniques from videos like the ones he and others post.

LOL at this entire post.

There is no backlash against Dave. lol. No idea where you see that.

The video he is talking really did cause a pretty big issue. His videos are very popular, and revealing exploitative, cheesiness to a mass of people makes the online meta shift. Those videos had a direct effect on the meta, causing masses of people to rely on a few hit-stun chaining combos, and just spamming through them ad nauseam.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Stopping power, or the ability to punish someone through timing or a good setup or whatever, is...what? a hit reaction that stops their current action and prevents them from starting a new action for a certain number of frames?

See, this is the problem. They are very easy to set up, and you could basically program a controller to have a sequence and play it out and it would work every time if you landed the first strike and went to another area with the next one. Jabs/straights are so easy to start off a combo with 6 of them. That is basically why Kenetic was compared to Ip Man. He gets off like 10 strike combos because of the speed and inability to block after certain strikes land.

Jab/straights are way too powerful for what they are. They should also have a different stamina depletion depending on where they land. Ones to the body are the same as ones to the head. Even though using these low takes more stamina because you basically have to lean in, turn your hips, etc.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Oh boy, so do I. Sadly, the game does not work like that. The only way you can really get them is either by sheer luck, or by parry, which is stupid in itself. It's because of this that slow but powerful plodders are near useless in this game. Even with a 100 power and lvl 5 Heavy Hands people can eat Mark Hunt's shot like candy

It does to a point. I rocked that GC I was talking about on the 4rth strike of a combo that didn't land the first three. I did use hooks though because he used the jab a lot. Caught him trying a jab with my hook and rocked him. I've rocked guys with hard strikes when they either started a strike, or missed with a big one. Depends on stamina likely, and timing. The ones that were rocks were at the initial phase of the strike. Basically where a flash KO would have happened on Undisputed.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

The big problem is not the hit stuns ... it's the combo MULTIPLIER that causes them!!! and not well timed single strikes or kicks.

Multiplier was in last game as well. It is a mixture of the two. More on the reaction side though since you can't block.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Some guy accused me of using a turbo controller the other day, said i was cheating because i was timing his strikes so perfectly that i was counter punching him into oblivion.

He said he spars with the Iron_sheik who is the best player on playstation and his timing isnt even that good, so i MUST be cheating.

I lol'd

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Some guy accused me of using a turbo controller the other day, said i was cheating because i was timing his strikes so perfectly that i was counter punching him into oblivion.

He said he spars with the Iron_sheik who is the best player on playstation and his timing isnt even that good, so i MUST be cheating.

I lol'd

That is kind of what I was talking about. There are programmable controllers that will remember button sequences and all you have to do is set it up and use one button to duplicate that over and over each time you press the button. I can see where that could actually be used with this game. That is my issue with it. When you know a combo will do something, you look to use it any time knowing it will cause a health event.

[MaccaC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Not being sarcastic at all.

Hit stun in the game is when you play a hit reaction that stops your current action, and prevents any new action from starting for a certain number of frames.

Stopping power, or the ability to punish someone through timing or a good setup or whatever, is...what? a hit reaction that stops their current action and prevents them from starting a new action for a certain number of frames?

They're not really the same though, one is two people trading 4-5 hit combos that might knock you down or knock you out but no one's really sure, the other is two people trading all variation of strikes knowing that if they technically out play the other the fight should be over.

I'm obviously over simplifying it but I remember reading the dev blogs from EA MMA about how they'd designed the game to calculate the power from strikes using all manner of systems, from where you're fighters feet are placed to weather the strikes changed power if you're opponent was coming forward or circling into the power hand.

Hand on heart can you tell us now that if you go into a fight on EA UFC2 would you be able to tell a difference in the power of strikes if your opponent is moving towards you or away from you, or if they're circling into your power hand, or if you catch them at the begging of an animation I think that's the main problem.

Players want to feel the difference of their actions and not just feel like they should be memorising 5 different combos.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Players want to feel the difference of their actions and not just feel like they should be memorising 5 different combos.

This. This is exactly what I am talking about.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

They're not really the same though, one is two people trading 4-5 hit combos that might knock you down or knock you out but no one's really sure, the other is two people trading all variation of strikes knowing that if they technically out play the other the fight should be over.

I'm obviously over simplifying it but I remember reading the dev blogs from EA MMA about how they'd designed the game to calculate the power from strikes using all manner of systems, from where you're fighters feet are placed to weather the strikes changed power if you're opponent was coming forward or circling into the power hand.

Hand on heart can you tell us now that if you go into a fight on EA UFC2 would you be able to tell a difference in the power of strikes if your opponent is moving towards you or away from you, or if they're circling into your power hand, or if you catch them at the begging of an animation I think that's the main problem.

Players want to feel the difference of their actions and not just feel like they should be memorising 5 different combos.

Catching the beginning of the animation, for sure yes.

The rest, probably not. It's not a significant enough factor compared to everything else except in the most extreme cases.

But your reply kind of gets to my point.

You don't seem to be against hit stuns.

You want more complexity in how they are achieved.

That's the feedback I want to hear.

When it gets over simplified to "get rid of the arcade MK hit stuns LOL", the problem is easily misunderstood, and you risk people interpreting it literally, and then we end up back in UFC 1 territory where nothing would stop your opponent and you just stand and trade forever with no consequences.

If you want more one punch power, asking to remove hit stuns from the game run completely counter to that.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Catching the beginning of the animation, for sure yes.

The rest, probably not. It's not a significant enough factor compared to everything else except in the most extreme cases.

But your reply kind of gets to my point.

You don't seem to be against hit stuns.

You want more complexity in how they are achieved.

That's the feedback I want to hear.

When it gets over simplified to "get rid of the arcade MK hit stuns LOL", the problem is easily misunderstood, and you risk people interpreting it literally, and then we end up back in UFC 1 territory where nothing would stop your opponent and you just stand and trade forever with no consequences.

If you want more one punch power, asking to remove hit stuns from the game run completely counter to that.

Can we get physics and momentum based striking?

Without it this issue will not be solved.

As it is now we are just stacking dmg points to see who can reach that magic number first.