Official Live Event Competition Thread

[chia]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

I think the first and last point we might be able to address.

The rest will have to wait unfortunately.

Can't get mad about you being willing to look into perceived issues and test them.

[Trillz]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

i thought on1chka came above iron_sharif. he also beat u in the clinch kenetic. im disapointed it isnt best of 3, the finals should have been at least.

Well goodluck, i see it being afro vs kenetic in the final but Afro vs zhunter should be awesome as they are equally skilled.
It feels like 3 xbox players qualified and the one undeversed ps4 player made it.

Well i predicted the finals so well, it was a shame whoever got aldo will win the tournment, they should allowed a mirror match at least when money is on the line. Afro and Kenetic are the two best players on ea ufc 2 though.

[SUGATA]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

1st "issue":
Just tested.
There are NO free head kick.
1-2 and leg or body kick - are causing FBHR (full body hit reaction, "hit stun") > OP does not loose his High block or can activate his High block DURING FBHR. And this is NOT RIGHT:
- no one strike in the game never causing FBHR (any hit stun at all)
- only after gaining dmg bonus (from CM, CW) up to 4 dmg this strike cause FBHR
- BUT this FBHR only gives him the interruption of the opponent's attack but does not allow him to punish the opponent by "free strike" (guaranteed, unblockable) because BLOCK IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

How to fix it for now (until UFC 3 and NEW striking mechanics):
Now the only possible actions during BFHR is: Blocking (H/L) and Parries (H/L).
Remove Block (H/L). Leave only Parries (H/L) - on low stamina their window becomes very tight and very difficult to success - it will give a small chance to escape a punish. No blocking possibility during FBHR. It is possible to make by patch right now.
This will give a striking advantage to the attaker to land free strike (punish) into this situation.
This will sove the problems:
- "unbreackable" high block
- back pedal escape after hit stuns
- will give us more strategy and guaranteed reward from our actions
- will bring more skill to striking by (only available) parring during FBHR state
- I swear ONE this fix will solve BOTH issues which you were mentioned above:

I am pretty sure ine this thing will dramatically change the entire striking in the current game - to its best.

I was wrong about non existing the magic combos which grants you a free strike, because i have not know that the same combo can deal different levels FBHR depends on different conditions. No details to prevent exploit sharing.

Possible solution to discuss:

1) What about simply to change (make shorter) the duration during which Block is not possible during concrete 5th level FBHR animations.
You have all animations of 5 FBHR - tune the vulnerability window for every animation to balance it.
2) Allow to Parry during ALL levels FBHR even during 5 FBHR - "master tool to survive", but shorten its window as it has on large stamina disadvatage
3) Again, i think bringing vulnerability window (no block, but can parry) for almost ALL levels FBHR can solve many complaints about current striking state, just need to tune their vulnerability window duration (to prevent exploits).

[Kenetic NRG]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

SUGATA go watch the youtube VOD. The first knockdown I got on Shariff was with an unblockable head kick.

Not sure what you're doing wrong but it is a HUGE problem.


Afro walking backwards was fine. I watched the rd 4 replay with him earlier and he even admitted I probably should have won. After than initial rock with 1 minute left in rd 4 I landed about 4 overhands and two headkicks with his head health bright red.

The problem is single strikes do no damn damage. I land 6 single power shots on bright red head health and no knockdown but he lands a body jab uppercut that rocks me into a hit stunned unblockable head kick.

[SUGATA]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

SUGATA go watch the youtube VOD. The first knockdown I got on Shariff was with an unblockable head kick.

Not sure what you're doing wrong but it is a HUGE problem.


Afro walking backwards was fine. I watched the rd 4 replay with him earlier and he even admitted I probably should have won. After than initial rock with 1 minute left in rd 4 I landed about 4 overhands and two headkicks with his head health bright red.

The problem is single strikes do no damn damage. I land 6 single power shots on bright red head health and no knockdown but he lands a body jab uppercut that rocks me into a hit stunned unblockable head kick.

Yes you are right, in some conditions some combos are granted you a free (guaranteed to clear hit) strike. I wrote it in prev post right above you - and suggest the possible solution.

Also i agree that one even L1 powerful strike does not matter w/o CM or CW.
And i fully disagree with that striking mechanics because this is totally wrong based. The solution in UFC 3 - NEW striking mechanics (check my appropriate thread). The solution in UFC 2 now - no solution, because its needed to change the entire striking mechanics. Possible solution for unbreackable block and backpedal - bring parry to unblockable state in FBHR, and remove block ability in all FBHR but within short windows which allow you to get a reward from causing FBHR (hit stun).

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

How are you going to fix 1 and the last points?
May be we can give you some ideas and discuss it together?

Yeah, sure.

Got a bit of time in between fights.

For the last one, one of our guys have started something and I don't know the details, so I'll stay out of that one for now.

As for the first, it's still not certain we will do something. Will be discussing on Monday.

But we've investigated and understand what's happening and why.

There are multiple levels on hit reactions. For the lower level ones, you can block while in the hit reaction.

There's one level right before a KD happens where the animation is bigger, and you can't block.

That was an intentional design choice.

However, the hit reactions to the head and body take you out of range and hide your head.

The leg ones don't.

And that's where the problem lies.

So the fact that the system was designed to disable blocks never raised red flags in early play testing because it never really mattered.

Until the leg kick ones started getting used a lot online.

Options to fix it:

-allow blocking during all leg kick hit reactions
-allow blocking during all hit reactions
-disable the highest level of leg hit reaction
-change the leg hit reaction to take you out of range

I think 1 or 2 are the most likely fixes for us to go with, if we choose to change it.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

Now you may ask, why wouldn't we fix the problem?

It's not an exploit, it can be defended.

But people are fishing for this hit reaction because it's likely the most powerful offensive technique in the game for the risk it presents.

There are a few ways of getting it. For arguments sake let's say there are 8.

They are not 100%, they have to be set up.

It's in no way a realistic meta, but it's not an exploit either.

Now if we take it away, something else will become the most powerful offensive technique.

I'm not sure if we know what that is.

The replacement could be more authentic...or less.

It could be more diverse in setup, it could be less.

It could be riskier to attempt, or it could be safer.

The end effect on the meta is more important than simply getting rid of it.

[SUGATA]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

Yeah, sure.

Got a bit of time in between fights.

For the last one, one of our guys have started something and I don't know the details, so I'll stay out of that one for now.

As for the first, it's still not certain we will do something. Will be discussing on Monday.

But we've investigated and understand what's happening and why.

There are multiple levels on hit reactions. For the lower level ones, you can block while in the hit reaction.

There's one level right before a KD happens where the animation is bigger, and you can't block.

That was an intentional design choice.

However, the hit reactions to the head and body take you out of range and hide your head.

The leg ones don't.

And that's where the problem lies.

So the fact that the system was designed to disable blocks never raised red flags in early play testing because it never really mattered.

Until the leg kick ones started getting used a lot online.

Options to fix it:

-allow blocking during all leg kick hit reactions
-allow blocking during all hit reactions
-disable the highest level of leg hit reaction
-change the leg hit reaction to take you out of range

I think 1 or 2 are the most likely fixes for us to go with, if we choose to change it.

1 question: WHY we need a FBHR which has not Block ability but at the same time has animation that does not allow the opponent to reach and hit us?

2 question: what pros we get from dealing FBHR to the opponent w/o run button or long dash button to reach him until his FBHR animation ends?
the only pros i see is to stop his attack but then we loose conditions to reach him, so FBHR is a save tool for opponent himslef, wtf?

3 question: why you dont want to remove Block ability (leave only Parry) during FBHR + decrease CM % bonus = our target will be to cause FBHR to break his block by it and to open his head for ex for our powerful strike (which is not be overpowered because of decreased CM)?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

1 question: WHY we need a FBHR which has not Block ability but at the same time has animation that does not allow the opponent to reach and hit us?

2 question: what pros we get from dealing FBHR to the opponent w/o run button or long dash button to reach him until his FBHR animation ends?
the only pros i see is to stop his attack but then we loose conditions to reach him, so FBHR is a save tool for opponent himslef, wtf?

3 question: why you dont want to remove Block ability (leave only Parry) during FBHR + decrease CM % bonus = our target will be to cause FBHR to break his block by it and to open his head for ex for our powerful strike (which is not be overpowered because of decreased CM)?

I consider 1+2 design flaws. Or oversights.

For 3, too big a change at this point.

[Dave_S]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

I hope nobody is missing fights to discuss this

[chia]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

Yeah, sure.

Got a bit of time in between fights.

For the last one, one of our guys have started something and I don't know the details, so I'll stay out of that one for now.

As for the first, it's still not certain we will do something. Will be discussing on Monday.

But we've investigated and understand what's happening and why.

There are multiple levels on hit reactions. For the lower level ones, you can block while in the hit reaction.

There's one level right before a KD happens where the animation is bigger, and you can't block.

That was an intentional design choice.

However, the hit reactions to the head and body take you out of range and hide your head.

The leg ones don't.

And that's where the problem lies.

So the fact that the system was designed to disable blocks never raised red flags in early play testing because it never really mattered.

Until the leg kick ones started getting used a lot online.

Options to fix it:

-allow blocking during all leg kick hit reactions
-allow blocking during all hit reactions
-disable the highest level of leg hit reaction
-change the leg hit reaction to take you out of range

I think 1 or 2 are the most likely fixes for us to go with, if we choose to change it.

Would it be acceptable to say if you went with one of the two fixes that you would be looking into tuning block to take slightly more limb damage as a balance? Would that be considered a balance there?

I don't mean a large change either for sure. Just enough to balance out the ability to block through the reactions.

[SUGATA]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

I consider 1+2 design flaws. Or oversights.

For 3, too big a change at this point.

Then
one more question: IF opponent is close to the cage and we cause 5 level FBHR to him (unblocking) he will not move away from us b/c of the cage right? so will we have a free strike on him?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

Then
one more question: IF opponent is close to the cage and we cause 5 level FBHR to him (unblocking) he will not move away from us b/c of the cage right? so will we have a free strike on him?

That's my untested theory, and why the difference between solution 1 and 2 is important.

[SUGATA]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

-allow blocking during all leg kick hit reactions - the BEST solution b/c solves the exploit and still allow us to reach the opponent with our mix-up on his blocking.

-allow blocking during all hit reactions - NO, b/c this may be a good but rare strategy to use the magic combo near the cage so the opponent will be worried about this and change his gameplay (block level); cage behind you always must to be a disadvantage to you.

-disable the highest level of leg hit reaction - NO, it is brings a variability to the game.

-change the leg hit reaction to take you out of range - NO, Leg kick i think is much less usable move than head and body strikes, so this will nerf himeven more.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Official Live Event Competition Thread

-allow blocking during all leg kick hit reactions - the BEST solution b/c solves the exploit and still allow us to reach the opponent with our mix-up on his blocking.

-allow blocking during all hit reactions - NO, b/c this may be a good but rare strategy to use the magic combo near the cage so the opponent will be worried about this and change his gameplay (block level); cage behind you always must to be a disadvantage to you.

-disable the highest level of leg hit reaction - NO, it is brings a variability to the game.

-change the leg hit reaction to take you out of range - NO, Leg kick i think is much less usable move than head and body strikes, so this will nerf himeven more.

I tend to agree across the board.

Only reason #2 might be a better option is if there's another combination of hit reaction animation and strike that can connect and cause big damage that hasn't been found yet.

Like 1-2-knee to the body, capoeira kick or something stupid like that.

Adding block for every hit reaction guarantees this problem doesn't resurface.