Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

[Bigg Cee]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

That's how it already works. Exactly as you describe it.

What I'm saying is there may not be a big appetite to change it because it's working pretty well by all accounts, up until this thread, and the metrics say we're already getting more sub finishes than the last game (for whatever reasons).

I said it once and I'll say it again...

I LOVE THE SUBMISSION GAME IN UFC 1 and 2!

To me it's fun and takes some skill to be good at it and just makes the ground game simple and not to dam hard. I hated ea mma and UD3 whole submission game. I thought they were dum and just not very fun.

Just my thoughts...

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I asked again, GPD could you give us the exact knowledge of which factors are affecting submission MINI-GAME details?
(perfect swoop, SA, GA, how to determine which submission is more affected by SA not by GA more assured)
here please:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...bmissions.html

The sub mini game is stamina and ratings only I believe.

I don't know the exact formula of weighting of each off the top of my head though, as I wasn't directly involved in the development of the mini game.

[trainbyday1]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

That's how it already works. Exactly as you describe it.

What I'm saying is there may not be a big appetite to change it because it's working pretty well by all accounts, up until this thread, and the metrics say we're already getting more sub finishes than the last game (for whatever reasons).

Thank you for replying. In my experience and the experience of many others in the thread that is not how it is working at all. I understand that is how you are saying it is supposed to work but in practice that is not the case. If you assume I have high stamina the difference in the gate speed for my opponent when they have very low stamina compared to when they have very high stamina is barely noticeable and this is what people are complaining about. It's not about how hard or easy the submissions are but the fact there is barely any difference in gate speed when your opponent has very high or very low stamina.

The increased submissions rate is explained by the factors mentioned earlier and also the fact there are now two gate submission counters and the added arm bar transition submission which is very powerful.

I actually love submissions and use them all the time but if my opponent has zero stamina and I am using a submission fighter like Maia there should a noticeable difference in their gate speed depending on their stamina whereas at present the difference is negligible. I also agree it’s probably not a good idea to change this now given the propensity for messing up the submission system but it should definitely be looked at for EA UFC 3.

[Fearhead24]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

That's how it already works. Exactly as you describe it.

What I'm saying is there may not be a big appetite to change it because it's working pretty well by all accounts, up until this thread, and the metrics say we're already getting more sub finishes than the last game (for whatever reasons).

No, it isn't working that way, we wouldn't complain otherwise.
It's a simple thing why there are more wins by submission: Because it's so easy to spam it and tap someone out even with 0 stamina and no setup. Oh, you're getting dominated for three rounds? Get yourself on the ground and throw a hundred submission attempts.

[Boiler569]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

You had a pretty big stamina advantage on him the whole time.

Without seeing his meter, it's impossible to say what impact that had on the denial window, but it should have been pretty big.

That, along with the predictability of his attempts should have put him in a very dangerous position.

One denial, and you could have easily turned the tables, got an instant SUB with him at zero stamina in the mini game.

Unless...and this is the part I have no way of knowing...there was a huge stat imbalance making the stamina advantage at 50% not as significant as I would imagine it to be.

I think there's some merit to draining some stamina on the guy who attempted the submission when his opponent escapes though.

Can't do it on entry or it will mess with balance way too much.

well unfortunately my Boxer has almost no submissions at all so I couldn't have subbed him out

Really it was the lag that killed me. I've gone against ppl like this several times and once I deny a couple in a row (due to predictability/stamina) I often am able to make them pay big time.

But some lag...plus stat disadvantage...plus (as you noted) perhaps a need for a bit more stamina drain after missing multiple sub attempts...and I was kinda stuck in a loop lol

[Boiler569]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

...Probably?

Your go to set up for the left body hook was... a 1-2 to the body. That a far cry from what I would call someone a brillant boxer to be honest.

lol :P

My boxer has no leg power or speed so I couldn't body kick (except my final KO lmao) and he literally just held high block the whole time....so yea...body cheese was my only hope (especially with absolutely horrible lag)

I'm not proud of this performance ! lol

[Boiler569]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I hardly run into submission spam, and it is so easy to deny subs also. To me there fine. The only thing that needs a nerf on the ground is the Rubber guard but other then that subs are fine and great to use.

Please don't nerf the subs or triangle choke from guard.

I definitely don't want subs from guard to be nerfed

just FIXED --- so if I escape 3 or 4 in a row, the guy's legs are burned out lol

sounds like GPD might be interested in a short term stamina drain for multiple failed submissions....so that's a start!

I definitely want being in full guard to be a THREAT...I have no problem being at major risk as a boxer, in a BJJ's guard! I'm all about it

Rubber Guard is broke as hell though and that needs to be nerfed ASAP lol

Or more like --- make it harder to obtain rubber guard; but easier to KEEP rubber guard

Right now it's super easy to obtain rubber guard, but also pretty damn easy to escape, so it just turns into a dumb loop most the time lol

got some good action on this thread glad we're all discussing

[trainbyday1]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I definitely don't want subs from guard to be nerfed

just FIXED --- so if I escape 3 or 4 in a row, the guy's legs are burned out lol

sounds like GPD might be interested in a short term stamina drain for multiple failed submissions....so that's a start!

I definitely want being in full guard to be a THREAT...I have no problem being at major risk as a boxer, in a BJJ's guard! I'm all about it

Rubber Guard is broke as hell though and that needs to be nerfed ASAP lol

Or more like --- make it harder to obtain rubber guard; but easier to KEEP rubber guard

Right now it's super easy to obtain rubber guard, but also pretty damn easy to escape, so it just turns into a dumb loop most the time lol

got some good action on this thread glad we're all discussing

I agree with everything in this post. Submissions should be made harder to finish or have added penalties if they are not completed but something should be done about spamming multiple submission in a row.

[oshighwayman]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

submission minigame has to be inspected.
there s too much weirdness going on.
I mean if I got 100 joint sub vs 57 joint def and opponent without stamina has his escaped gates flying all over place like he got 200 def..
u didn't give us any ping/latency indicator so I don't know if this is lag/delay issue or game mechanics issue

on other hand when that guy with I don't know 60 sub throws his sub against my 100 sub def, it seems my gates refuse to move like his for some reason

laggier game, gates moves more slow, while laggers gates shoot anywhere with 1 flick

I am 99% games host and I feel constantly delayed in many things

please tell them to look into this

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

submission minigame has to be inspected.
there s too much weirdness going on.
I mean if I got 100 joint sub vs 57 joint def and opponent without stamina has his escaped gates flying all over place like he got 200 def..
u didn't give us any ping/latency indicator so I don't know if this is lag/delay issue or game mechanics issue

on other hand when that guy with I don't know 60 sub throws his sub against my 100 sub def, it seems my gates refuse to move like his for some reason

laggier game, gates moves more slow, while laggers gates shoot anywhere with 1 flick

I am 99% games host and I feel constantly delayed in many things

please tell them to look into this

Yup, just subbed a 78 sub defense with my 68sub boxer, his gates moved very slowly, yet right after my 100sub BJJ character + 3* chess master and 5* armbar fails to sub my opponent's 61 sub defense character because his gates were moving at the speed of light. Sometimes it seems that the minigame doesn't depend on stats at all and is entirely random

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Submission mini game is wrecked IMO.

Needs a complete rehaul

[cingular]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Submission mini game is wrecked IMO.

Needs a complete rehaul

Yup, don't know if its latency that killed the sub mini game but stats and stamina mean nothing.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Once again, I really wish they had just implemented the EA MMA sub system and make the correct adjustments for stamina as well. Since having a SINGLE sub attempt actually lasting 30 - 60 seconds (or longer) is impossible with this sub system, the stamina drain isn't consistent with the sub battles either.

If the old sub system was implemented, you could try working for a sub that isn't in tight hoping that you can actually find that "sweet spot", but at the risk of draining your stamina.

I NEVER liked this sub system in UFC 2 at all. It's one of the worse imo, I hate dealing with it and you just go through the motions for a very predictable amount of time since the gates only last so long anyway. It should be less linear and more of the feeling out process and battle like the old EA MMA sub system was.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Once again, I really wish they had just implemented the EA MMA sub system and make the correct adjustments for stamina as well. Since having a SINGLE sub attempt actually lasting 30 - 60 seconds (or longer) is impossible with this sub system, the stamina drain isn't consistent with the sub battles either.

If the old sub system was implemented, you could try working for a sub that isn't in tight hoping that you can actually find that "sweet spot", but at the risk of draining your stamina.

I NEVER liked this sub system in UFC 2 at all. It's one of the worse imo, I hate dealing with it and you just go through the motions for a very predictable amount of time since the gates only last so long anyway. It should be less linear and more of the feeling out process and battle like the old EA MMA sub system was.

My only comment on this idea is that if any changes are made, that careful attention is paid to the many many complaints I've seen about the poor reflection of stamina in the mini game.

I would hope the submissions more closely resemble real life. Some are more draining to actually apply (getting there) whereas some can be a little more of a fight if not caught clean (armbar from top, kimuras). But on the flip side, I think there should be a distinct difference between stamina burn fighting a grip break for the armbar versus something that is clean if you actually get it (like a brabo choke, is a good example where it isn't really a stamina burn type battle)

[Bigg Cee]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

is the kimura deny from full guard top, the same as trying to deny it from side control? (depending on the direction left or right)

I had someone spam this move with rousey but i never seem to get the deny in time. Also not to many ppl know this sub is even there for certain fighters.