Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

[godway]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

I don't get all the praise for the grappling. Could it be really bad, and they made it better than that? Yes. But it's still not very good. And gameplay issues make it repetitive and mundane. The AI doesn't have any logic whatsoever on the ground. Stamina is non-existent on the ground, as you can sweep someone into a takedown if you deny something at random. There's no chess match to it whatsoever. And there's no physical or attribute advantages either.

All this hope and talk for a better stand up game, which I'm sure we'll get, but I hope they're not doing it at the expense of grappling. Because that needs a ton of work too, in my opinion.

[Kasel]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

I don't get all the praise for the grappling. Could it be really bad, and they made it better than that? Yes. But it's still not very good. And gameplay issues make it repetitive and mundane. The AI doesn't have any logic whatsoever on the ground. Stamina is non-existent on the ground, as you can sweep someone into a takedown if you deny something at random. There's no chess match to it whatsoever. And there's no physical or attribute advantages either.

All this hope and talk for a better stand up game, which I'm sure we'll get, but I hope they're not doing it at the expense of grappling. Because that needs a ton of work too, in my opinion.

I guess that's fair, even though I praise the grappling I still think Undisputed 3's grappling is far superior and I actually forgot about how good it was and how disappointed I was in UFC 1's grappling, and like you said UFC 2's grappling is just way better than UFC 1's system and it kinda makes us forget about what a really good grappling system is, you make a good point. I also never EVER finish any fight by submission because of how meaningless it feels in this game, I sometimes put my enemies in a submission hold and wait till the last stage just to let them go and show them they F'd up and I could've finished them

4 things I hate the most about UFC 2's grappling which are perfect in Undisputed 3 are: Striking balance (ESPECIALLY animations, I mean damn they're bad in UFC 2, they look less hurtfull than if someone would hit someone with a pillow in the ground, not exaggerating, they look like 0 damage WWE type of fake strikes. In Undisputed 3 it hurts to watch especially with the punch sounds at higher weights), Posturing up and down as well as the time and stamina consumption getting back up takes, of course the submission mini-game and last but not least, the AI's ground game... god it's even worse than the striking AI.

I tend to forget how bad the ground generally is and perhaps it's because of how bad the striking is. Maybe it's because of how long I haven't played in, this is one of the reasons I uninstalled months ago, the game was exclusively striking for me and it got old after awhile


Now that I keep thinking about it, I think the only thing they improved on the ground game of UFC 2 is the transitions alone, am I wrong here? maybe they improved the stamina on the ground too

Man I just had a complete change of heart about the whole grappling system from 1 comment b godsway lol

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

I don't get all the praise for the grappling. Could it be really bad, and they made it better than that? Yes. But it's still not very good. And gameplay issues make it repetitive and mundane. The AI doesn't have any logic whatsoever on the ground. Stamina is non-existent on the ground, as you can sweep someone into a takedown if you deny something at random. There's no chess match to it whatsoever. And there's no physical or attribute advantages either.

All this hope and talk for a better stand up game, which I'm sure we'll get, but I hope they're not doing it at the expense of grappling. Because that needs a ton of work too, in my opinion.

I've nothing to compare the grappling to as never played the previous games... however one of the things I'm most impressed about on this game is the grappling and ground game. I've had plenty of fights that end up on the ground and do in fact resemble a game of chess. Nothing better than finally getting top mount with your opponents stamina low or even managing to setup the sprawl guillotine.


However, fakes - were these intended by the devs? Did they sit down and say "if players just touch the analog right then go left, they can fake their opponents." ?

I can't help but think it's simply just the way the animations and mechanics have been setup that allow players to do this, rather than it actually being intended.


I'm not saying I don't like fakes, but perhaps they can delve more into this idea or offer players an alternative to try and trick their opponents.

[aholbert32]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

lol, I have no idea what that means guy. Just being honest, as i always have. I've be knocking that multiplier and overpower block since day 1. I'm not sure how ea would overhaul striking. Seeing as ea seems to love the multiplier and all kinds of weird strikes I can't expect much different. I don't think you see it much in quick match, but in higher division ranked fights striking is.... peculiar. I suspect ultimate team is similar.




The grappling isn't even that different in the second game. Is it much improved? yes. Is there a lot more transitions? yes. Is it completely different? No, not by a long shot. Biggest difference I've noticed is you don't have to swoop (but you can) and standing up is a transition now. I love the reversals, momentum and all that but at its root the grappling doesn't really feel that different. I greatly appreciate the work ea has done with grappling and it realise its a lot

Its very different. The grapple advantage system. The momentum system. The new animations. The new transitions. Its very different than the system in UFC 1.

Without me going into details, I would be confident given that GPD is one of the people leading the striking changes and he was the one who developed the changes to the grappling system.

I like what I've seen even though it was VERY early. I have had and read hours of convos with the devs about whats happening with striking and I can honestly say I like all of it. That doesnt automatically mean that everyone will though(I love the new grappling system but occasionally I'll see people who say they hate it).

[aholbert32]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

I guess that's fair, even though I praise the grappling I still think Undisputed 3's grappling is far superior and I actually forgot about how good it was and how disappointed I was in UFC 1's grappling, and like you said UFC 2's grappling is just way better than UFC 1's system and it kinda makes us forget about what a really good grappling system is, you make a good point. I also never EVER finish any fight by submission because of how meaningless it feels in this game, I sometimes put my enemies in a submission hold and wait till the last stage just to let them go and show them they F'd up and I could've finished them

4 things I hate the most about UFC 2's grappling which are perfect in Undisputed 3 are: Striking balance (ESPECIALLY animations, I mean damn they're bad in UFC 2, they look less hurtfull than if someone would hit someone with a pillow in the ground, not exaggerating, they look like 0 damage WWE type of fake strikes. In Undisputed 3 it hurts to watch especially with the punch sounds at higher weights), Posturing up and down as well as the time and stamina consumption getting back up takes, of course the submission mini-game and last but not least, the AI's ground game... god it's even worse than the striking AI.

I tend to forget how bad the ground generally is and perhaps it's because of how bad the striking is. Maybe it's because of how long I haven't played in, this is one of the reasons I uninstalled months ago, the game was exclusively striking for me and it got old after awhile


Now that I keep thinking about it, I think the only thing they improved on the ground game of UFC 2 is the transitions alone, am I wrong here? maybe they improved the stamina on the ground too

Man I just had a complete change of heart about the whole grappling system from 1 comment b godsway lol

Can I get specifics on that? Who are you fighting? I've seen different AI strategies on the ground and I'd honestly say that the AI is one of its best areas.

I'm asking this because the team is still working on AI and if there are specific issues they can likely address them.

[Kasel]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Can I get specifics on that? Who are you fighting? I've seen different AI strategies on the ground and I'd honestly say that the AI is one of its best areas.

I'm asking this because the team is still working on AI and if there are specific issues they can likely address them.

Gladly, here's a scenario I came across many times which covers many issues the ground game has, and is really game breaking for me personally.

(Each time this happens is only when my fighter has the higher ground stats or else I don't let the fight get to the ground, and I only play on normal mode due to parry spam on anything higher, and go realistically easy on my opponent to try to outpoint because it's too easy to KO)

The AI is able to block my transition when its' stamina is much lower than mine which drains a huge amount of my stamina immediately giving the AI the ground advantage in which case I try to get the hell outta there by attempting to stand up which the AI blocks and drains my stamina much much further, I proceed to do anything I can to try to survive as much as possible on the ground to get to the next round but the AI randomly stands up despite not letting me try to stand up while I'm on top

Also, something I found out is that the AI doesn't care how much stamina you have when you attempt to do something and I can prove it. Start up a match even on pro, pick Damien Maia as your opponent and let him be on top, then spam the get up command and you'll see that even when you have literally 0 stamina you will still be able to stand up in a random stand up attempt, he could allow it on the first try or allow it in the 5th consecutive try, just keep spamming transitions to attempt to get up.

I gotta run but I might add more to this

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Gladly, here's a scenario I came across many times which covers many issues the ground game has, and is really game breaking for me personally.

(Each time this happens is only when my fighter has the higher ground stats or else I don't let the fight get to the ground, and I only play on normal mode due to parry spam on anything higher, and go realistically easy on my opponent to try to outpoint because it's too easy to KO)

The AI is able to block my transition when its' stamina is much lower than mine which drains a huge amount of my stamina immediately giving the AI the ground advantage in which case I try to get the hell outta there by attempting to stand up which the AI blocks and drains my stamina much much further, I proceed to do anything I can to try to survive as much as possible on the ground to get to the next round but the AI randomly stands up despite not letting me try to stand up while I'm on top

Also, something I found out is that the AI doesn't care how much stamina you have when you attempt to do something and I can prove it. Start up a match even on pro, pick Damien Maia as your opponent and let him be on top, then spam the get up command and you'll see that even when you have literally 0 stamina you will still be able to stand up in a random stand up attempt, he could allow it on the first try or allow it in the 5th consecutive try, just keep spamming transitions to attempt to get up.

I gotta run but I might add more to this

Yup, the AI is purely reactionary. It can deny transitions on the 1st frame while having no stamina, but on the other hand it'll always let you through if you spam the same transition enough times. The AI can also block a transition and transition itself simultaneously, which is really annoying

[aholbert32]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Gladly, here's a scenario I came across many times which covers many issues the ground game has, and is really game breaking for me personally.

(Each time this happens is only when my fighter has the higher ground stats or else I don't let the fight get to the ground, and I only play on normal mode due to parry spam on anything higher, and go realistically easy on my opponent to try to outpoint because it's too easy to KO)

The AI is able to block my transition when its' stamina is much lower than mine which drains a huge amount of my stamina immediately giving the AI the ground advantage in which case I try to get the hell outta there by attempting to stand up which the AI blocks and drains my stamina much much further, I proceed to do anything I can to try to survive as much as possible on the ground to get to the next round but the AI randomly stands up despite not letting me try to stand up while I'm on top

Also, something I found out is that the AI doesn't care how much stamina you have when you attempt to do something and I can prove it. Start up a match even on pro, pick Damien Maia as your opponent and let him be on top, then spam the get up command and you'll see that even when you have literally 0 stamina you will still be able to stand up in a random stand up attempt, he could allow it on the first try or allow it in the 5th consecutive try, just keep spamming transitions to attempt to get up.

I gotta run but I might add more to this

Thanks for this Kasel.

A couple of comments:

- You have to play on Pro. I believe that Pro is the difficulty mode that got the majority of the patch changes. You have to deal with a little bit of parry spam (which strangely enough is what the community here asked for when it was discovered that striking was too easy on Pro.)but I find the AI much more challenging on the ground and the overall experience much more difficult.

- When was the last time you played the AI? The stand up bug was fixed I believe in one of the first patches. I play about a 30 AI fights a month and I havent seen the AI stand up bug in well over 10 mos.

- There has never been an MMA game AI that has been great against spamming moves. Everybody loves UD 3. I do too. I still feel like its the best MMA game ever made. With that said, I can guarantee a takedown every time against the AI from the clinch. I mean every time no matter the level or the player I'm using. I just keep spamming attempts and eventually I will get it. Its so bad that I've had to refuse to use clinch takedowns.

Ive been saying this for years here and I'll say it again....You have to use house rules offline against every MMA game. I'll admit that I have a few more for EA UFC than I do for UD3 but I still need them for both. Spamming is more successful in UFC 2 but its definitely effective in UD3 at times.

- You and Supreme_Bananas make a great point about the AI being reactionary. I would love to see some versatility in wha the AI does on the ground. My biggest issue with the AI on the ground is that its very single minded. 99% of the time its focus is solely on getting to full mount and attempting in armbar or other sub from mount. I was geeked last week when I fought AI Gunnar Nelson and he sat in side control for a while and attempted a kimura but that rarely happens.

- The downside of working on AI is that you have to wait until the gameplay elements are complete before you can fully implement the AI. So that means that the AI will always be one of the last things worked on. For example, the momentum system on grappling wasnt fully developed until 3-4 mos before release so programming the AI to know and make choices based on that decision had to wait until it was complete.

- With that said, that doesnt mean that Skynet isnt currently working on aspects of the AI. He is and we all had a discussion about some of the stuff he is working on and it sounds great. My hope is that everything he plans to do makes it in the game. If it does, I think you guys will be happy.

[WarMMA]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

In UD3 spamming transitions against the A.I only worked cuz of how the grappling system worked. You could only block so much attempts before a transition got through. But you still had to be kind of technical with it on the harder difficulties cuz you would get reversed. I like the grappling system in this game much more though. I feel it has tons of potential and they just need to add more to it like UD3 had. Things like more unique transitions, positions, catching strikes into sub attempts, ect.

[Haz____]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Gladly, here's a scenario I came across many times which covers many issues the ground game has, and is really game breaking for me personally.

The AI is able to block my transition when its' stamina is much lower than mine which drains a huge amount of my stamina immediately giving the AI the ground advantage in which case I try to get the hell outta there by attempting to stand up which the AI blocks and drains my stamina much much further, I proceed to do anything I can to try to survive as much as possible on the ground to get to the next round but the AI randomly stands up despite not letting me try to stand up while I'm on top

Also, something I found out is that the AI doesn't care how much stamina you have when you attempt to do something and I can prove it. Start up a match even on pro, pick Damien Maia as your opponent and let him be on top, then spam the get up command and you'll see that even when you have literally 0 stamina you will still be able to stand up in a random stand up attempt, he could allow it on the first try or allow it in the 5th consecutive try, just keep spamming transitions to attempt to get up.

Man 100% this. Ive brought this up before multiple times and surprised its not talked about more. The computer will randomly be a grappling god denying every single thing you do, even when they have no stamina, then 2 minutes later they'll randomly just stand up. Either mode doesn't make any sense.

[godway]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Grappling doesn't feel like a struggle at all. You can get to full mount or your opponents back like it's simple, and then just play the deny game until they're out of stamina and submit them. There's nothing organic about it. AI logic, weight, strength, momentum, mean nothing.

[OneDrop]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Grappling doesn't feel like a struggle at all. You can get to full mount or your opponents back like it's simple, and then just play the deny game until they're out of stamina and submit them. There's nothing organic about it. AI logic, weight, strength, momentum, mean nothing.

Yup, you either slice through bread or have a stalemate. I hate how everything revolves around denying. You don't even have to work to pass. And the fakes, *******. So dumb, yet I'm forced to use them but would rather not.

[KeyTheNotorious2nd]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Grappling doesn't feel like a struggle at all. You can get to full mount or your opponents back like it's simple, and then just play the deny game until they're out of stamina and submit them. There's nothing organic about it. AI logic, weight, strength, momentum, mean nothing.

It would be great to have a new way to evolve your fighter ,Maybe a Attribute tree with a ton of ways to raise your fighters stats and a ton of new Attribute stats with accuracy, reflex's for bobbin and weaving, speed for takedowns, real life fighter achievements like being a black belt or lower in certain styles like jiu jistu, sambo wrestling champion, NCAA all American , former champion in boxing (Holly Holm) and etc (evolving your fighter to certain levels), Strength in grappling ( this could determine how hard it will be to get back up and etc, think about khabib and Michael Johnson) speed of transitions , accuracy of stand up strikes ,awareness would determine the successfulness of sprawling a takedown but if you flick analog stick down to late you will be put into a takedown battle just like UD3 but instead of being exactly like UD3 there will be a tug of war type mini game which will show your corner colors and you have to either tap buttons or twirl the analog stick in a circles and after two seconds the person with the most of their corners color in the box or whatever gets the takedown or sprawl but strength will play a part in the battle.

Sent from my Coolpad 3622A using Operation Sports mobile app

[Dave_S]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Yup, you either slice through bread or have a stalemate. I hate how everything revolves around denying. You don't even have to work to pass. And the fakes, *******. So dumb, yet I'm forced to use them but would rather not.

I hate the fakes, but they are a real thing that happens in MMA. I don't think they look anything like what's in the game though. I think fakes in real life use the legs a lot, and in the game it seems all upper body.

You talking about using fakes against AI or online?

[Yaari]

Re: Exciting things to expect for UFC 3

Wonder if we'll hear something at E3, June 10-12th? If this is really supposed to be released this year, it seems like the perfect place for it.