UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

[Pappy Knuckles]

I owned UFC Undisputed 3 when it originally released, but my memories of playing it then are very vague. I do remember that I enjoyed it, but not very much beyond that. I was heavy into Fight Night during that time, so that probably factored a lot into my limited time with the game back then. Recent forum discussion about UD3 piqued my interest in playing again. I know a lot of people still consider it the best MMA game ever, so I wanted to see how it compared to today's EA UFC product.

I've only playing for two days now, but I am honestly shocked on how many things UD3 does better than what we currently have. These weren't things that I had to dig deep to find either, it's pretty apparent as soon as you play.

EA's striking is a lot more fluid, but UD3 isn't too bad considering when it was made. Plus it still feels satisfying despite being a touch robotic. I'd probably also give EA a slight edge in the submission system too, but not by very much. My biggest issue with it in UD3 is that it just doesn't look good visually. Other than that, I don't see any areas where where EA UFC is better.


Below is a quick list of things that jumped out to me immediately when I began playing UD3 again:

• Clinch fighting is much more satisfying. You can fight your way out of positions, transition faster, and have a number of options against the fence
  
  
• Being able to counter takedowns with strikes is fantastic. A timed knee or punches to the face when they're under you are both good options.
  
  
• The presentation is light years better than what we have in any of the EA games. Event Mode, Pride mode, fighter vingettes, a number of camera angles, doctor's checking cuts, etc. Great features.
  
  
• It's a very subtle thing, but they way fighters will simply perform a two hand push to get someone away from them is great.
  
  
• Refs actually standup action that has stalled on the ground. I feel like sometimes it comes a little too quickly, but I LOVE that it's in.
  
  
• Transitioning from striking to grappling is smooth and efficient. No waiting for bars to fill up. In addition to that, using major and minor transitions really makes you feel like you're working on the ground and clinch. I've never been a fan of just holding a direction in these situations.
  
  
• The torso movement on the ground when trying to avoid strikes is great. Also, being able to cover up and use head movement on the feet is nice as well. I'm not sure why the decision was made not to allow that in UFC3.

Last night I ran an event mode and let the CPU pick random matchups. In the video below, I've clipped together sequences that I feel display some of the good things UD3 has going for it. It really shows us where the EA series needs to step things up.


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0:00 Roop and Paxiao are fighting for postion in the clinch. Eventually, Paxiao secures a single collar and shoots for an immediate takedown which I stuff.

0:19 I throw a head kick with Roop. Paxiao tries to close the distance and clinch, but I drop him with a straight and jump on top of him. Paxiao recovers, secures full guard, and puts me in a Kimura. I get out and then begin peppering him on top.

0:54 Ken Flo and Sherk are looking to pick their shots. Sherk takes some swings and then shoots for a takedown on me when I'm against the fence. I wall walk and get back to my feet. Eventually, Sherk gets in close with a missed hook to the body, but Florian pushes him away.

1:14 Sherk comes in swinging more bombs and rocks me. I cover up and move before shooting a takedown. The ref stands us up due to inactivity.

1:44 Sherk blasts me and sends me to the canvas and pins me against the fence. I wall walk to get back up and now we're locked in the clinch. We throw some strikes at each other while engaged. Sherk ends the round with a takedown.

2:20 Sherk comes in wild, but I lean back and catch him with a shot that drops him. I jump on top of him and eventually work myself to full guard. I posture up a little bit and catch him with a quick strike that rocks him. I then start unloading heavier shots, but Sherk is able to recover and secure guard again.

2:58 Sherk shoots for a takedown which I stuff. I then try to clinch him, but Sherk backs away and returns fire. Sherk then backs away from another clinch attempt. Sherk gets countered with two shots mid-strike and hits the ground. I jump on his back and secure the RNC victory.

3:41 Hunt ends the fight in a hurry at the beginning of the second round. Again, no hesitation to jump on McCorkle when he was hurt.

3:59 Cariaso drops me and tries to finish from stacked guard. I sway on the ground with Torres and survive.

4:10 Cariaso presses me against the cage while going for a kick to the body. He attacks the leg but eventually gives it up and I circle away with Torres.

4:23 I lay into Cariaso with some good strikes. I expend too much energy and Cariaso takes me down. He moves me towards the corner of the cage before the referee stands us up.

4:50 Working the stand-up against Cariaso before catching him with a head kick and GNP finish.

5:12 Banuelos comes throwing bombs at me against the fence and I shoot for the takedown. I eventually secure full mount with Kid and finish him on top.

[Nugget7211]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Only thing I would say is that you can counter takedowns with strikes, just the window is tiny, I managed to knee 2 khabibs during the beta, one was a jumping knee. Although, it doesn't really look right, there's a weird pause post impact, but that could be the lack of ragdoll.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

go play Undisputed 3. That would be a great solution for you.

What does it look like I just did? I swear some of you are functioning with half a brain in here. Please, only constructive comments. This isn't a thread because I'm trying to slander EA UFC.

[holyjesus]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

UD3 clinch and ground game are way better than EA'Sports UFC

Also there are some little details (live shoving opponent) that make the game so enjoyable

If only we could get a port of UD3s grappling and ground game instead of UFC2......

[Phillyboi207]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

EA ground game and striking is way better

Undisputed had better clinch game and wresting plus the movesets

[Malaach]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I recognize alot of people from THQ's, EA MMA & FNC forums on OS. I'm just surprised that I don't see people saying the same thing we told THQ to change on UFC Undisputed 2009.

Which was modify the way we posture up and down which led to the posture system we had in UFC Undisputed 2010 & 3.

This is their showcase video of their Ground game changed from 2009 to 2010.
UFC Undisputed 2010 Developer Combat Video
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UFC Undisputed 3 Developer Ground Game Video
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Honestly there is not much they need to change on the ground. The dynamic grappling is not bad, it's the posture system which doesn't feel right. If EA can copy and modify what THQ did for posturing up and down that change would dramatically help change the pace of the ground game.



-Add a smoother posture system like in the video above. Up, Left, Right, Diagnoly Up-Right, Diagnoly Up- Left, can still be used as it is in EA UFC 3 to modify the type of GnP strike thrown, but moving the analog those directions would posture you up.

The releasing of the left stick would bring you back to a postured down position.

Right Analog Stick Down while in Guard or Half Guard would be a grapple hold to bring your opponents posture down and hold them just as we already can do in mount in EA UFC 2 & EA UFC 3.

- Add ground sways.

- Finish The fight blocking and ground sways.

- Finish The Fight Transitions.

- Add Transitions Grapple Hold Positions For Full & Half Guard just as mount has a grapple hold position in EA UFC 2 & EA UFC 3.

EA UFC 3 already has finish the fight submissions so that's a plus.


You add these changes and the ground game is done. You wouldn't need anything drastically different to add in future installments. The posture system cannot remain the same though it's not realistic. No one stays postured up on someone that long raining GnP on their opponents. People easily transition from high posture to low posture to impose their GnP on people. The whole filling the dynamic bar for posturing up needs to go. That is no smooth transition. The only time we should need to fill that bar to reposture up is if our opponent is holding us with a grapple hold to prevent us from posturing up. Then it make sense to have to transition by filling that gauge.

But if my opponent is not holding me with a Grapple block/ hold then I should be able to just press up on the left stick to posture back up, and release the left stick to posture back down. Posturing up and down should be just as smooth as going side to side or front to back with Headmovement in EA UFC 3.

I wish I would of known ahead of time the ground and clinch didn't have much changes other wise I would of dropped all kinds of suggestions earlier on.


The clinch Pappy Knucles already touched on that well.

The only thing I have suggested for the clinch is for it to be reanimated so that when in collar tie it Muay Plum we can move in closer or further away from our opponent to alter damage and location of a strike. Very similar to how range effects where your kicks will go now, and how much damage will be done based off your range, and direction you're moving in.

This is the same concept but for the clinch. If I moved closer then my opponents knee to the head should't hit me in the head but in the body. If my opponent tries to knee me in the body then it shouldn't connect as clean if I'm moving away from my opponent.

This concept can also be used to help break out of the clinch positions without transitions.


That and adding the ability to cage walk from guard, or half guard back to a standing position is all we need. That plus making the cage takedown positions happen more frequently.


Also if I have back Clinch and push my opponent to the cage then the moment we hit the cage that should now make that a cage positions, with cage entries to transition to other cage positions.


https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-included.html


Many things from the thread above that I'm still not seeing in the game. Hopefully that changes.

I only hope that #1 in the double leg against the cage, with entries from ground, clinch and standup.


and hope added this takedown and then seated against the cage.


Also, I really hope that tweaked the cage wall walking like this gifs :
- First of all, changed the cage walk camera into front view.




- We need to be able to throw punches and elbows to the head and body in seated against the cage.


+ pass to guard, too.


Thank you so much!

Hopefully those cage takedown positions can also transition to seated cage full guard, or cage seated half guard as seen in the quote above. I'm glad EA added those takedown positions, but they need to happen more often . To happen after a takedown deny near the cage is the wrong implementation. And hopefully cage seated positions are in the full game.


The stand up changes are amazing but the sacrifice of the ground was a little risky. But imo the clinch and ground game don't need many changes just simple stuff like this, and some positions. Which I feel is something patchable. Seeing all the stuff EA UFC 1 had patched in. And FNR4 with a control scheme being patched it makes me a believer of if EA wants they can add these changes.

[godway]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

This game seems to get "the little things" a lot more than EA UFC does. And then when you bring that up, it's written off as "Who cares about ____? They had to revamp the striking!" which is kind of annoying.

[holyjesus]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

EA ground game and striking is way better

Undisputed had better clinch game and wresting plus the movesets

Striking i'd say yes

But the ground game of UD3 is way and I mean way better than EA Sports UFC, the possibilities are almost unlimited plus I don't have to fill a bar to transition

The attention to details in UD3 is also superior to EA's UFC for example (CAF/Doctor Stoppages/Refs stopping the fight/pushing your opponent)

UD3 is the best virtual representation of MMA but EA's is catching up quickly with UFC3 but the ground game and clinch are not good enough maybe EA Sports UFC4 will finnaly take UD3's spot which I really hope it happens

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Very nice post, Malaach. The way posturing up works in EA UFC is so frustrating to me. The only way I'm ever able to do some damage in full guard is if my opponent is awful. So it's either throwing a bunch of baby shots while they hold me in their guard or get pulled back down when I try to posture up. We desperately need to be able to make small movements to deliver some quick shots.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Striking i'd say yes

But the ground game of UD3 is way and I mean way better than EA Sports UFC, the possibilities are almost unlimited plus I don't have to fill a bar to transition

The attention to details in UD3 is also superior to EA's UFC for example (CAF/Doctor Stoppages/Refs stopping the fight/pushing your opponent)

UD3 is the best virtual representation of MMA but EA's is catching up quickly with UFC3 but the ground game and clinch are not good enough maybe EA Sports UFC4 will finnaly take UD3's spot which I really hope it happens

If we were able to get a game that got so much right last gen, then there's no reason EA can't get there too. They don't need to completely tear down what they already have, but just make some additions and refinements.

The only thing that concerns me is that there isn't very much that was changed from EA UFC 2 to EA UFC 3. That's cool they're trying to get the striking together, but even that is a work in progress right now. This process is going a little slower than I would like to see.

[godway]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

If we were able to get a game that got so much right last gen, then there's no reason EA can't get there too. They don't need to completely tear down what they already have, but just make some additions and refinements.

The only thing that concerns me is that there isn't very much that was changed from EA UFC 2 to EA UFC 3. That's cool they're trying to get the striking together, but even that is a work in progress right now. This process is going a little slower than I would like to see.

This game seems like it was actually trying to capture what it's like to watch UFC fights. The EA series is still "finding itself" so to speak. They don't seem to care as much about presentation elements and if they do, they certainly don't show it in their games.

[tissues250]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I agreed UD3's clinch game way better than EA UFC. and We can't see seated against the cage and the ground position this year. Its so sad. But you guys have to know. This is a big franchise. They have a big plan for this game. 1~2 years cycle. They have a lot of things left for the next title as EA UFC4. It is their own way of doing things. We will see...

[Malaach]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Very nice post, Malaach. The way posturing up works in EA UFC is so frustrating to me. The only way I'm ever able to do some damage in full guard is if my opponent is awful. So it's either throwing a bunch of baby shots while they hold me in their guard or get pulled back down when I try to posture up. We desperately need to be able to make small movements to deliver some quick shots.

The posture system is the # 1 thing that needs to be adjusted for the EA UFC series. I don't want to wait until EA UFC 4 for something like this that should of been there since the first game. But if we have to wait that's what we will have to do.

The filling the gauge system isn't bad to me. I don't care if they used that or used the old quarter turn system for transitions. It's not those controls that's effecting the GnP. It's only the posture system that all old MMA games used except for UFC Undisputed 2010 & UFC Undisputed 3.

Those are the only two MMA games that don't use the current posture system we have currently in EA UFC 3.

I don't know exactly how much work would need to go into changing the ground game posture system, but I don't feel like it's that difficult because EA luckily did not have strike move levels for GnP Strikes. Which means it's only the U.I. ,mechanic, and whatever stats it would effect and controls that would need adjustments not something they would have to individually change on the entire roster.

As well they would need to reanimated a postured down position, with a postured up position which works somewhat like like Headmovement. Meaning if I pressed up on the left analog stick my fighter should be straight up.

If I press up and to the left my fighter should lean that way for his posture, same if I pressed up and to the right. Which should alter my GnP strikes.

But not only that we have both L1/LB/R1/RB as Strike modifiers.

If I'm not holding any direction on the left stick my fighter should reset back to resting position which is postured down.

Just like with Headmovement if I'm not holding the right stick in a direction and release I go back to my resting stance.

This is the best way I can explain going from postured up and down should be without needing to go through a transition just to get to those positions.


The only time I should need a transition to posture up, is when 1st getting to that position, and if my opponent is holding me with a grapple hold just like Mount bottom can currently do in EA UFC 2 & 3 after I postured up.
Full Guard & Half Guard should have hold positions as well which looks just like the default animations EA UFC 3 has for full guard closed from postured down.

Meaning you would need a full guard legs not closed animation to be in the game.And the same with half guard animations.

Strikes should be able to be used to try and break our opponents grapple hold as well. Minor strikes should not interrupt transition escaping either only big shots while postured up should do that.

Finish The Fight needs to be adjusted, it's so limited at the moment. All we have is a mini game to depend on vs us actually trying to defend ourselves. Which is why we need ground sways and ground blocking added to the finish the fight positions. But also ground sways for natural Ground positions as well.

Not only that we can't transition to a better position while trying to finish the fight. We should be able to do that.

Finish The Fight is something that should be activated not only from a standing position, but also on the ground as well. The current EA UFC 3 posture positions where you stay up would be great finish the fight ground game positions. That's basically how it worked in UFC Undisputed except ground rocking in guard would make your fighter go to stacked position as a ground activated finish the fight position.

If you rocked someone in mount you would go to the full postured up position, and in back mount if you rocked your opponent they would go into back mount flattened out position.

You do this the ground game will be perfect and UFC Undisputed can finally R.I.P. and no longer be compared or used as a reference for a new gen console game.

But until EA does this, for ground, clinch, CAF depth & even practice mode depth. UFC Undisputed will keep getting brought up as a reference for the approach and details that should of been done for the EA UFC series.


Even Martial Mind made videos about this.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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EA doesn't need anything from Undisputed for the stand up they are on the right track for that Imo it's just the ground, clinch and other details.

EA looks like they gave us a career mode similar to UFC Undisputed so I'm really happy and surprised about the detail they put into that. Press Confrences, Weigh Ins, Rivalries, interviews are awesome addition that surprised even the GC's.

[allBthere]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

the more I played EA's demo the more I was put off by the gameplay including the striking. The animations for hits weren't great, and the lightning speed was too fast as well. A left hook doesn't feel as gratifying as it should, especially if you slip to the left before throwing it which should be like a built in wind-up.

I probably went to a no-purchase after extended playing and would rather play UD3 if I still owned it as well.

[godway]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

The posture system is the # 1 thing that needs to be adjusted for the EA UFC series. I don't want to wait until EA UFC 4 for something like this that should of been there since the first game. But if we have to wait that's what we will have to do.

The filling the gauge system isn't bad to me. I don't care if they used that or used the old quarter turn system for transitions. It's not those controls that's effecting the GnP. It's only the posture system that all old MMA games used except for UFC Undisputed 2010 & UFC Undisputed 3.

Those are the only two MMA games that don't use the current posture system we have currently in EA UFC 3.

I don't know exactly how much work would need to go into changing the ground game posture system, but I don't feel like it's that difficult because EA luckily did not have strike move levels for GnP Strikes. Which means it's only the U.I. ,mechanic, and whatever stats it would effect and controls that would need adjustments not something they would have to individually change on the entire roster.

As well they would need to reanimated a postured down position, with a postured up position which works somewhat like like Headmovement. Meaning if I pressed up on the left analog stick my fighter should be straight up.

If I press up and to the left my fighter should lean that way for his posture, same if I pressed up and to the right. Which should alter my GnP strikes.

But not only that we have both L1/LB/R1/RB as Strike modifiers.

If I'm not holding any direction on the left stick my fighter should reset back to resting position which is postured down.

Just like with Headmovement if I'm not holding the right stick in a direction and release I go back to my resting stance.

This is the best way I can explain going from postured up and down should be without needing to go through a transition just to get to those positions.


The only time I should need a transition is if my opponent is holding me with a grapple hold just like Mount bottom can currently do in EA UFC 2 & 3.
Full Guard & Half Guard should have hold positions as well which looks just like the default animations EA UFC 3 has for full guard closed from postured down.

Meaning you would need a full guard legs not closed animation to be in the game.And the same with half guard animations.

Strikes should be able to be used to try and break our opponents grapple hold as well. Minor strikes should not interrupt transition escaping either only big shots while postured up should do that.

Finish The Fight needs to be adjusted, it's so limited at the moment. All we have is a mini game to depend on vs us actually trying to defend ourselves. Which is why we need ground sways and ground blocking added to the finish the fight positions. But also ground sways for natural Ground positions as well.

Not only that we can't transition to a better position while trying to finish the fight. We should be able to do that.

Finish The Fight is something that should be activated not only from a standing position, but also on the ground as well.

You do this the ground game will be perfect and UFC Undisputed can finally R.I.P. and no longer be compared or used as a reference for a new gen console game.

But until EA does this, for ground, clinch, CAF depth & even practice mode depth. UFC Undisputed will keep getting brought up as a reference for the approach and details that should of been done for the EA UFC series.


Even Martial Mind made videos about this.

Spoiler

<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"width="788.54" height="443" type="text/html" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wjXs7YvgylY?autoplay=0&fs=0&iv_load_policy=3&showi nfo=0&rel=0&cc_load_policy=0&start=0&end=0&origin= https://youtubeembedcode.com"></iframe>

Spoiler

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EA doesn't need anything from Undisputed for the stand up they are on the right track for that Imo it's just the ground, clinch and other details.

EA looks like they gave us a career mode similar to UFC Undisputed so I'm really happy and surprised about the detail they put into that. Press Confrences, Weigh Ins, Rivalries, interviews are awesome addition that surprised even the GC's.

I love that video about CAF/Career mode, remember watching it before. Martial Mind took them to task for this stuff a long time ago, and they obviously didn't listen to him much with this game, as CAF is once again a bare bones experience.