Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[thedeadchicken89]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

This will probably get buried as this thread is huge.

I would love to see this happen:

1 - Ability to move as you use head movement. Currently standing still and using the RS allows you to move your head wherever you want. Allow us to use footwork as well, perhaps with a movement penalty to emulate the difficulty of making significant head movements while utilising footwork.

2 - Re-map RS dashes to L1 + RS

3 - Re-map L1 + RS big dashes to L1+L2 + RS

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

This will probably get buried as this thread is huge.

I would love to see this happen:

1 - Ability to move as you use head movement. Currently standing still and using the RS allows you to move your head wherever you want. Allow us to use footwork as well, perhaps with a movement penalty to emulate the difficulty of making significant head movements while utilising footwork.

You missed the Beta didn't you?

[thedeadchicken89]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

You missed the Beta didn't you?

I think you didn't understand my post.

If you stand still and use RS, you get 360 head movement.

If you're moving around (using LS) and press the RS in any direction you will do a either a duck, sway or lean, in a forced animation.

If you're moving around and press L1 + RS, you do a larger movement or signature movement.

What I want, is the ability to move my feet while using the RS to move my head, at the cost of a movement speed penalty. While using the movement animations as alternative movements, or escape movements.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I think you didn't understand my post.

If you stand still and use RS, you get 360 head movement.

If you're moving around (using LS) and press the RS in any direction you will do a either a duck, sway or lean, in a forced animation.

If you're moving around and press R1 + RS, you do a larger movement or signature movement.

What I want, is the ability to move my feet while using the RS to move my head, at the cost of a movement speed penalty. While using the movement animations as alternative movements, or escape movements.

What your saying is you don't want to be forced to return your head to centerline while swaying and moving? I think.

You wanna be able to say, duck, then lean while moving, in a fluid transition like it is when your standing still?

They wouldn't need to modify R1 for that, they'd just have to remove the forced return to centerline while moving.

R1 is a strike modifier anyway.

Theoretically, you can already do this, but your forced to move your head back to centerline, so you can indeed use it to escape or coming in, but you can't rely on being able.to constantly move back and keep your head off center and all times.. I assume its a deliberate choice. I don't know how I exactly feel about it. Side to side movements while moving (as in, flicking RS left-right while coming in is pretty effective if you don't over rely ob it) I'd need to play the game again to decide.
I do lean towards being able to stay off centerline, but at a massive vulnerability risk if you do get caught.

However. Moving sway, as far as I'm concerned, isn't a forced animation, like normal sways. You can time a counter strike during the sway. Not all strikes and going to combo out of the sway, and its contextual to the direction you sway, but I'm positive I've moving step in ducked a headkick and chained it into an uppercut.

TL;DR Removing the forced return to centreline on moving headmovement would do the exact same thing as your asking if I'm not mistaken.

[manliest_Man]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

My ideal stand-up movement controls:

• Left Stick -> Normal Movement
  
• Tap the Left Stick -> Small Lunges
  
• Hold L1 + Left Stick -> Signature Jumpy/flowy movement.
  
• Hold L1 + Tap Left Stick -> Big Lunges
  
• Hold L1 + R1 -> Running Movement
  (Able to run sideways/forward/backwards and even completely turn around 180 from your opponent and
  in general break your fighting stance and posture just so that you can jog around the octagon under full
  freedom)
  
• Right Stick -> 8 Dimensional with automatic Block Head Movement.
  (Same 4 system we have now, but the corners would be just so that counter strikes can come off faster
  depending on the angle you duck to. Also when ducking towards a corner, what determines whether you'll
  slip frontal or side strikes will be based on where you are moving towards with the left stick)
  
• Hold L1(or R1) + Right Stick -> Advanced,Signature, with the Hands Down(no automatic block) 360 & Rangey Head Movement.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Me after reading this thread.....

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Me after reading this thread.....

Just sandblast some hoes my brother, that'll turn that frown upside down.
:P.

[thedeadchicken89]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

TL;DR Removing the forced return to centreline on moving headmovement would do the exact same thing as your asking if I'm not mistaken.

In simple terms sure, but the ability to get in and out with the forced animations (just because you can frame cancel and punch doesn't mean they aren't forced) is good enough to keep them in the game and just remap them.

It would change in-fighting significantly, and defensive responsiveness, adding a new level of complexity with an increased risk.

[JohnnyCobra]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Continuing from the Stamina topic.




It has nothing to do with wanting to "dance" Altair. All head-movement is not created equal. You have defense, counter and offense oriented head-movement. They're not the same thing.

Defensive head-movement:










These are large swaying motions in just about every direction.

Pro's
- You're making your head as hard to hit as possible.


Neutral
Preemptive

Con's
- There's no way to setup a counter if your opponent misses unless they literally run into your punch
- Tiring
- Susceptible to leg kicks
- Susceptible to takedowns


Counter oriented head-movement:









These are short & fast-twitch motions that barely make your opponent miss


Pro's
- Set's up powerful counters
- Doesn't cost as much stamina

Neutral
- Reactionary

Con's
- Significant consequences if you fail to do it correctly
- Difficult to pull off

Case in point:





Offensive head-movement



Swaying left, right or ducking while moving forward into your opponents range

Pro's
- Loads up punches depending on which way you're swaying (hooks or overhands basically)
- Masks your intentions and keeps your opponent guessing (you can takedown, punch or just retreat right afterwards)

Neutral
Preemptive

Con's
- Tiring
If predicted:
- Susceptible to uppercuts
- Susceptible to (flying) knees
- Susceptible to body strikes
- Susceptible to leg kicks
- Susceptible to takedowns

---------------------


In the UFC3 beta, the only thing we've got is the offense oriented head movement masquerading as the other two.

On top of that, UFC3's dodging mechanics are binary. Certain sways dodge certain punches 100% of the time.


TL;DR

Instead of head-movement being a dangerous game of timing and distance management like it is in real life, they've turned it into rock-paper-scissors.

I don't see how anyone can defend that honestly.

Best damn post I've read. If it was just one thing that could be implemented post-beta this is the one. I really hope the devs recognize this post and actually tries to make it work. The freedom of movement is better than ufc 2 but still feels very limited in comparison when it comes to headmovement. Sluggish and unresponsive

[Serengeti1]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

The solution aside... I think it's important that this is looked at. We're not all making it up. Most of us feel the head movement isn't efficient enough. It definitely doesn't feel responsive enough. Solid is just blessed with amazing video game capabilities but we can't all be that good.

I'm not sure how much the 360 head movement will help this but it's still something that I'd love to see in the game.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It's just about getting used to its speed. Not that it was perfect in the beta... some combos were too fast for some fighters' head movement, which was unfair.

BTW, Kenetic steamrolled me. And don't get me started on my grappling.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

It's just about getting used to its speed. Not that it was perfect in the beta... some combos were too fast for some fighters' head movement, which was unfair.

BTW, Kenetic steamrolled me. And don't get me started on my grappling.

I could pick up the game today and start playing in whatever way is optimal with this current system. I could be the best player on the planet and casually beat everybody up. I'd still bring this up.

It's not about combo speed. It's not about getting used to it.

The game simply isn't as responsive as many of us feel it should be. How well we're able to adjust ourselves is an entirely separate issue.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Not entirely separate.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Not entirely separate.

How is it not?

Defensive head-movement:

*bunch of gifs*

These are large swaying motions in just about every direction.

Pro's
- You're making your head as hard to hit as possible.


Neutral
Preemptive

Con's
- There's no way to setup a counter if your opponent misses unless they literally run into your punch
- Tiring
- Susceptible to leg kicks
- Susceptible to takedowns

I just now noticed I made a mistake that I thought I fixed less than a minute after I posted, but somehow it didn't save (or I forgot to hit save ).

Full defensive head-movement is a mix between preemptive and reactionary head-movement. It's not entirely preemptive.

You can do it entirely preemptively and just move your head as wildly and unpredictably as you can manage, but that's generally not what people do.

You react to a certain strike with a full-defensive sway, then preemptively roll in a certain direction so you can pop your head up, look to see if another strike is coming and repeat the process.

Not necessarily exactly in that pattern, but the point should be clear. The reactionary part isn't possible.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

How is it not?

It is possible for someone to git gud and still find the game unresponsive. I think MartialMind is an example.

My point is that the relation between skill and feedback is still there. Players can have some bad impressions simply because they're still novices. Although it's good to have all feedback, the skilled feedback has more weight, when it comes to changing things that could affect the balance of the game.