Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

My point about head movement was that it is less based on reaction than it seems (even in FNC and UFC 2).

And my beef with your suggestion isn't that some moves would not be reactable. It's that these moves would always be reactable early in the fight, which in the context of grappling would be simpler and less organic than what we have now.

Im not following how that’s simpler? You’d have more options and ratings would matter more. Plus theoretically you’d actually be stood up if not being active enough.

The minor transitions would essentially make your major transitions easier as well. Main difference would be that you’d be expected to set up major transitions unless you have a huge rating or stamina advantage

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Man, I cannot stand that denials can equate to reversals. Reversals and sweeps should take more work to complete successfully. IF the game had scrambles, were you immediately jump on a guy that just went to the ground and if they assume some kind of position you are trying to take, THEN a reversal should work that instantly (and we'd have some form of a scramble implemented). But that's just a spur of the moment thought on how scrambles could work and with reversals like we have now would make sense.

But there's just something off about this system. Maybe it's just things like side control being so OP for some reason and more transitions being needed, but I'm just not sure if GA is the way to go. I just don't know if I like the guessing game in EA UFC over holding a position and waiting for openings (more so how U3 had it). I think that the GA system just doesn't simulate the patience of the ground game irl, everything kind of feels like you have to rush. You kind of have to be more careful with U3's system which I liked.

[Haz____]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

So you only want the temp stam and GA effects to be thrown out after the devs can add gigillion mini moves? Is that it?

"gagillion mini moves" is one heck of a stretch..

You like to do this weird thing were you take logical arguments we make, and over exaggerate them them into "Teleporting away" and all these EXTREME things, which isn't what we are saying at all.

[Haz____]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

I have spent a lil bit working out in my local boxing club, but grappling is my real passion.

In UFC 2, I barely even bother to grapple because it's so insanely unrealistic, and feels so weird and wrong. it's based around so many artificial, auxiliary systems, I feel no immersion whatsoever in the grappling.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

"gagillion mini moves" is one heck of a stretch..

You like to do this weird thing were you take logical arguments we make, and over exaggerate them them into "Teleporting away" and all these EXTREME things, which isn't what we are saying at all.

Give us an estimation of how many mini-moves, then.

And the teleport thing wasn't even an exageration. I was talking about the fighter appearing on screen already slipping the punch on the next frame.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Im not following how that’s simpler? You’d have more options and ratings would matter more. Plus theoretically you’d actually be stood up if not being active enough.

The minor transitions would essentially make your major transitions easier as well. Main difference would be that you’d be expected to set up major transitions unless you have a huge rating or stamina advantage

We already have small and big transitions.

It is easy to understand how things would be simpler, because you'd be removing a variable that changes the speed of the moves (their viability) in short term. I don't know if you'd also want to remove GA. That would be even worse.

[Haz____]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Give us an estimation of how many mini-moves, then.

Each position should have at least 3-4 options. With transitions to things like Knee on belly, Lockdown, Body Triangle, Deep half, etc functioning as Modified mini/alternate transitions/positions.

Having just a few more options gives you so many more ways to fake out the opponent, misdirect, set patterns, or set traps.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

We already have small and big transitions.

It is easy to understand how things would be simpler, because you'd be removing a variable that changes the speed of the moves (their viability) in short term. I don't know if you'd also want to remove GA. That would be even worse.

Haz get’s what im saying.

Current the “mini” transitions operate independantly of the major ones.

You’re not even acknowledging the added depth from my suggestion

[IamDoubiBear]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Honestly, we have some mini transitions and major ones but not a lot (example would side control sub to full guard sub for guys like ferguson). A few more options on each transitions would be cool indeed. A good example of this is when you're in submissive back control in the clinch, you can transition to stay in the clinch and transition up to get free, but you also can transition with R2 + another direction to let go of the clinch : its excellent because it gives you one more option to get free and the opponent has a hard time knowing which one you use, it gives more depth IMO. Other options to transition or get free of the hold similar to that would be a very very nice addition as it would add more moves and depth to clinch and ground game.
Another good example is when you're in sub sprawl, you can hit R2 + left or right to get to half guard sub and the transition is harder to block : adding a lot more of these options would help the clinch and ground game be way more deep.

Also, different guard pass animations depending on stamina, BJJ level or other parameters would add variety to the fighter styles and will get people confused more often (in a good way, because you cannot block what you are not expecting).

But that's just my opinion.


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[Solid_Altair]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Each position should have at least 3-4 options. With transitions to things like Knee on belly, Lockdown, Body Triangle, Deep half, etc functioning as Modified mini/alternate transitions/positions.

Having just a few more options gives you so many more ways to fake out the opponent, misdirect, set patterns, or set traps.

And that's a minimum of transitions per positions, or new ones on top of the ones that already exist?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Haz get’s what im saying.

Current the “mini” transitions operate independantly of the major ones.

You’re not even acknowledging the added depth from my suggestion

BTW, I'm no stranger to this idea.

I had posted a ridiculously detailed suggestion (actually more than one version of it) that was quite similar, Micro-Grappling and Nano-Grappling. One was based on EA MMA and another based on UD3. Both before EA UFC 1. I changed my mind when I played EA UFC 1, because I ended up liking the directional denials (to my surprise). And for EA UFC 2, I liked GA. So, basically I ended up prefering the EA UFC 2 logic, where the "mini moves" are the subtransitions.

I thought I had the old posts saved, but not this one, as it was extra old, before EA UFC 1. I thought I'd never need it again.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

BTW, I'm no stranger to this idea.

I had posted a ridiculously detailed suggestion (actually more than one version of it) that was quite similar, Micro-Grappling and Nano-Grappling. One was based on EA MMA and another based on UD3. Both before EA UFC 1. I changed my mind when I played EA UFC 1, because I ended up liking the directional denials (to my surprise). And for EA UFC 2, I liked GA. So, basically I ended up prefering the EA UFC 2 logic, where the "mini moves" are the subtransitions.

I thought I had the old posts saved, but not this one, as it was extra old, before EA UFC 1. I thought I'd never need it again.

I actually think both directional denial and GA could stay. GA would be tweaked though. When blocking you’d be at a disadvantage same with striking/posturing. Also all the momentum based GA would apply. But i’d definitely get rid of randomly building GA through baby strikes or random positions simply for balance sake. You build it by forcing your opponent to block or putting yourself in advantageous positions with mini transitions.

Taking out the short term stamina battle would only open up the ground game imo.

Just some things I’d love to be changed. I get that it’s pretty balanced as is but depth AND balance is what we should be striving for.

BJJ should be chess but atm it’s checkers in this game because it relies on short term stam so much

[Malaach]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

Ah im an idiot

Forgot to include

POSTURING UP SHOULD NOT BE A TRANSITION

Unless someone does a minor transition to hold you down.

We should be able to freely posture up and down to deliver damage

This. This what not suggested much, so I feel like it wasn't expressed that we need this as it was expressed to THQ to change this in UFC 2009 which happened very next game UFC Undisputed 2010. We need this in the EA UFC Series.

A transition still needs to exist to break the ground clinch, but after getting past that initial transition we should have different levels of posture. But the bottom fighter should be able to either grapple hold like grapple hold in mount bottom, or transition to posture his opponent back down.

Posture System
- Low Posture which is default posture after transitioning through ground clinch. (This position we should only be able to throw short punches, small hammer fist, short elbows)

- High Posture which is accessible by using the left stick and a direction upward. Which works similar to 360° Headmovement. You only enter high posture with the left stick, as soon as you let the left stick go you reset back into the low posture position.( Strong GnP should be accessible in this position, such as the big hooks, big elbows, big hammer fist, with the ability to cause a ground finish the fight rocked event.)

Ground Clinch/ Grapple Holding
-Ground Clinch-Which is basically the default animations/ default ground positions that EA UFC 2 & EA UFC 3 currently use for full guard, half guard, back sitting positions.

Ground Clinch is basically the grapple Hold Positions such as mount bottom has to bring a postured up fighter into a grapple hold to stop GnP. For other Ground Game positions it would mean they would need new animations to simulate full guard open, where as the full guard clinch would be full guard closed. Half Guard would need the same treatment, as well back sitting would need an open or closed position and animation.

Just as you grapple hold in mount bottom in EA UFC 2 & 3 without filling up a meter it should be the same with grapple holds in all positions. As well both offense and defense should have grapple holds like this.

New Posture Strikes In All Positions
- New Posture System in all positions.

The Concept of low and high posture should happen in all ground positions, that way each Ground Game Positions has weak strikes, and Strong Strikes.

If I'm in side control top position I should be throwing weak elbows, and weak knees w/o the left stick but if I hit the left stick up it should change my fighters posture so I can throw stronger elbows, and stronger knees.

Same with back side control, sprawl, north south, back mount, it doesn't matter every ground positions should have something like this.

It's more realistic this way.

Additional Changes To The Ground

But with changes like these we would also need the ability to:
- Sway strikes on the ground.
- Referee TKO Stoppage for too many blocked strikes w/o advancing
-Better Referee Stall Awareness
- Ability to block, sway, arm trap while rocked in a finish the fight position.
- Ability to transition to a more advantageous finish the fight position offensively. (These last two make TKO's look way more realistic, and gives us way more control then being stuck with a mini game for recovery.)

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

This posture talk... have yall played EA UFC 1?

[Malaach]

Re: Ideas to improve grappling in EA UFC

This posture talk... have yall played EA UFC 1?

It's been years since I played it TBH I still own it, but it's ground game i don't remember much. I just remembered it was more similar like UFC Undisputed with the swoops instead of dynamic Grappling

With your comment though I feel like it means EA UFC 1 had this form of posturing like Undisputed 2010 & UFC UD 3.