GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

[Acebaldwin]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I just hope there's more strikes variety that's been added to the TKOs if we're to see more of them. Those straights seemed straight out of katas in Karate to me so the more variety, the better. Same with TKO positions, I'm not sure I've seen more than 2 in the beta. (Correct me if I'm wrong gpd)

[mannyonelover]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

Just allow a few follow up strikes and problem solved will make everyone a little more satisfied..
Because the instant flop down and the fights over looks ridiculously corny
it truly takes away from the moment of victory and dissipates realism.


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[Nugget7211]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I just hope there's more strikes variety that's been added to the TKOs if we're to see more of them. Those straights seemed straight out of katas in Karate to me so the more variety, the better. Same with TKO positions, I'm not sure I've seen more than 2 in the beta. (Correct me if I'm wrong gpd)

There is definitely at least 3, because I saw 3 different FTF subs in the beta (RNC, Armbar and Arm triangle)

[Acebaldwin]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

There is definitely at least 3, because I saw 3 different FTF subs in the beta (RNC, Armbar and Arm triangle)

That don't mean there were 3. I know you could do a arm triangle or go for D'arce from the same position for exemple. Same with armbars and Peruvian neckties. Pretty sure it just depends on what your opponents has and the position it is in. But even if there were to be 3, I hope there'll be some more in the final build.

[Nugget7211]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

That don't mean there were 3. I know you could do a arm triangle or go for D'arce from the same position for exemple. Same with armbars and Peruvian neckties. Pretty sure it just depends on what your opponents has and the position it is in. But even if there were to be 3, I hope there'll be some more in the final build.

Yeah, I know that, but in the game Barboza only had one FTF sub in any given position, they flash up for like a second on the grapple hud. There's definitely at least 3 and probably more FTF positions. I'd imagine that the same ones that are in 2 are in 3, with the frequency tweaked or something. I wish I had video or something for you, but there's definitely at least 3 and I can vaguely remember a 4th

[Acebaldwin]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

Yeah, I know that, but in the game Barboza only had one FTF sub in any given position, they flash up for like a second on the grapple hud. There's definitely at least 3 and probably more FTF positions. I'd imagine that the same ones that are in 2 are in 3, with the frequency tweaked or something. I wish I had video or something for you, but there's definitely at least 3 and I can vaguely remember a 4th

Alright l'll take your word for it. Still hoping there's more variety as to what type of strikes you can throw tho.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I said it before ill say it again, people watch UFC because they wanna see just that. Saying anything else is hypocracy. Fighters are in the ring because they wanna do JUST that. Everyone knows the risk. It's ridiculous to remove it entirely.


Hope the devs come up with something...

Again, it's not "entirely" removed. You can still follow up and continue to throw unnecessary punches if you want when it's a knock down. And unfortunately (or maybe "fortunately" with you sick, twisted fight fans ) they still seem to look KOed when this knockdown occurs. Now, if you want that kind of knockdown to happen more, maybe the devs can do that. You guys are more worried about bloodsport than realism in this aspect, because what FTF was in EA UFC, wasn't exactly realistic either without a ref jumping in.

Concussions have been a big deal and serious issue in ALL sports lately and that concern has spilled over into the video game world, so there's no surprise they were likely put off by this. If it's too much to get a ref to slide in like they are supposed to, than this is the alternative. One of the refs many jobs is to make sure fighter's don't take unnecessary shots, of course the UFC might not want that in game since the ref can't actively stop fights in a physical manner.

I don't know where that 95% stuff came from so I decided to do some research. So, if you watch these videos of 2017 KOs, you know what happens most of the time? The fighter gets knocked down and followups are necessary (which is still in the game.

I counted...

16 followups to a knocked down opponent (not KOed)

10 followups to a KOed opponent (what we can't do now in EA UFC), but most only had one punch connect b/c the ref stepped in and I'm including some that the fighter hesitated waiting on the ref.

13 walk off KOs where the fighter didn't followup, sometimes the fighter literally walked off, a few times they just waited on the refs signal to see if they need to follow up.

and a couple that were gray area

So, we just need more knock downs you can still throw punches in. Walk offs aren't that uncommon, but getting away with 6+ unanswered shots off a KO actually is more uncommon.
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[Morgan Monkman]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I'd have to agree with Haz on this one, UFC really contacted you guys and asked to take strikes out???

Really??? That seems super far fetched.

It really comes to not adding ref interactions and because of that they removed the extra strikes till a later date.

Now not to sound mean or anything but... you guys did not have resources to add ref interactions???? Really?? How many guys do you have working on this project? I mean, REF interaction is integral to finishes in this game.

I am also not really a fan of the stifling of the conversation by the mods. First time i have seen that since becoming a member of this Forum and i am quite taken aback by it.

[aholbert32]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I'd have to agree with Haz on this one, UFC really contacted you guys and asked to take strikes out???

Really??? That seems super far fetched.

It really comes to not adding ref interactions and because of that they removed the extra strikes till a later date.

Now not to sound mean or anything but... you guys did not have resources to add ref interactions???? Really?? How many guys do you have working on this project? I mean, REF interaction is integral to finishes in this game.

I am also not really a fan of the stifling of the conversation by the mods. First time i have seen that since becoming a member of this Forum and i am quite taken aback by it.

Ref interactions sadly take money and time. You have to mo cap each interaction so that means that you have mo cap an interaction with each finishing position for a KO. Mo cap sessions are expensive and EA UFC doesnt have unlimited resources and access to a mocap studio so it has to pick and choose what it wants to do when it has a mocap session scheduled.

Now the devs likely made a choice....we can mocap more movement sets and strikes or we can do ref interactions. They likely chose the former. Probably because they are focused on gameplay. A new strike or new movement set is more important to actual gameplay than ref interactions. Ref interactions are purely an immersion and visual feature.

Now I'm not saying its important because it is but ref interaction isnt a gameplay feature.

After the mo cap, you still need animators to take what they captured and integrate it into the game so that it matches up with the other animations in the game. You still have to QC to make sure it isnt causing any bugs. So while ref interactions seems simple, its actually more complicated than it seems.

As for the UFC, I dont think the UFC said "remove FTF". They likely mentioned that it was a bad look to have so many strikes on an unconscious opponent. EA agreed and instead of just dialing it back decided to remove the feature. I'm hoping they did that because they have a better solution coming up. Remember, UFC 1 didnt have FTF at launch either and it was added in a later patch. I just hope they do a better job at implementing that than they did with UFC 1.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I'd have to agree with Haz on this one, UFC really contacted you guys and asked to take strikes out???

Really??? That seems super far fetched.

It really comes to not adding ref interactions and because of that they removed the extra strikes till a later date.

Now not to sound mean or anything but... you guys did not have resources to add ref interactions???? Really?? How many guys do you have working on this project? I mean, REF interaction is integral to finishes in this game.

I am also not really a fan of the stifling of the conversation by the mods. First time i have seen that since becoming a member of this Forum and i am quite taken aback by it.

Far fetched? This happened with the NFL and Madden. It happens, people.

And if the conversation was being stifled then the thread would be closed.

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[ab541]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

Again, it's not "entirely" removed. You can still follow up and continue to throw unnecessary punches if you want when it's a knock down. And unfortunately (or maybe "fortunately" with you sick, twisted fight fans ) they still seem to look KOed when this knockdown occurs. Now, if you want that kind of knockdown to happen more, maybe the devs can do that. You guys are more worried about bloodsport than realism in this aspect, because what FTF was in EA UFC, wasn't exactly realistic either without a ref jumping in.

Concussions have been a big deal and serious issue in ALL sports lately and that concern has spilled over into the video game world, so there's no surprise they were likely put off by this. If it's too much to get a ref to slide in like they are supposed to, than this is the alternative. One of the refs many jobs is to make sure fighter's don't take unnecessary shots, of course the UFC might not want that in game since the ref can't actively stop fights in a physical manner.

I don't know where that 95% stuff came from so I decided to do some research. So, if you watch these videos of 2017 KOs, you know what happens most of the time? The fighter gets knocked down and followups are necessary (which is still in the game.

I counted...

16 followups to a knocked down opponent (not KOed)

10 followups to a KOed opponent (what we can't do now in EA UFC), but most only had one punch connect b/c the ref stepped in and I'm including some that the fighter hesitated waiting on the ref.

13 walk off KOs where the fighter didn't followup, sometimes the fighter literally walked off, a few times they just waited on the refs signal to see if they need to follow up.

and a couple that were gray area

So, we just need more knock downs you can still throw punches in. Walk offs aren't that uncommon, but getting away with 6+ unanswered shots off a KO actually is more uncommon.

Good stats, i watched the knockouts video also and could see that the ref quickly signals to the standing fighter by waving near the downed opponent not to proceed with any more shots. Its essentially a presentation problem at the moment more than anything, as its cutting away from the fight way way too quickly which looks weird. For example at least FNC had the recovery minigame to give more feeling and anticipation to the finish.

Viable solution for a patch?

We might have established that getting the ref to physically separate fighters is outside of scope for this iteration, but let me offer an easier approach that can or maybe cannot be used to fix this:

Make a few animations for the referee to run and get in the middle of or at least near enough to the downed fighter and the standing opponent. Then the ref could start waving the contest off and/or covering the downed opponent (before the pre-rendered cutscene triggers). This would look much more natural then the current implementation which shows a sudden/abrupt cut off from real-time action to the pre-rendered celebration cutscene that follows.

Not saying that it initially has to have the referee actually physically touching the downed fighter or wading off the approaching fighter, but just getting near enough to give a waving signal like what we have observed from the video. Additionally like other people mentioned i hope that its changed so that severe knockdowns happen way more often than full KO's, which will have the follow up shots as standard like GPD mentioned. This would also better represent the figures you have provided.

The future for this problem in EA UFC 3

I'm interested to see if and what GPD and the team are working on for a possible solution to this highly popular and divided discussion. If something is being worked on for a patch then maybe there is a much better solution that he has come up with, which me might all be missing. But i guess only time will tell and GPD knows better than anyone what is achievable in regards to the resources and time available needed to look at fixing this.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I'd have to agree with Haz on this one, UFC really contacted you guys and asked to take strikes out???

Really??? That seems super far fetched.

It really comes to not adding ref interactions and because of that they removed the extra strikes till a later date.

Now not to sound mean or anything but... you guys did not have resources to add ref interactions???? Really?? How many guys do you have working on this project? I mean, REF interaction is integral to finishes in this game.

I am also not really a fan of the stifling of the conversation by the mods. First time i have seen that since becoming a member of this Forum and i am quite taken aback by it.

Like others have said, it happened with Madden. You don't even see concussion injuries in Madden because the NFL didn't want them in the game and they are the some of the most common injuries next to ACLs irl. But it wasn't up to EA.

Now I agree ref interaction is the bigger issue here, that's the same thing I've been saying, but I do see how it could be time consuming as well as not being a top priority esp since no other game has really given us true ref interaction before. But that's really the main issue to me.



@ab541, I totally agree we have more of a presentation issue as well. UFC 1 sometimes had the ref just get closer to call off the fight. I can only hope it wouldn't take too much time away from bigger necessities, but it would be great for game play immersion.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

Far fetched? This happened with the NFL and Madden. It happens, people.

And if the conversation was being stifled then the thread would be closed.

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Just from what i read it seemed like you were telling people to quit talking about it?? Maybe it just the way i interpreted your decision to close threads and telling people in this thread to give it up.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I called it before this game released in a post GPD was talking in.

I know this being a supervisor working in the Marine Industry.

You CANNOT DUMP ALL YOUR RESOURCES INTO ONE THING.

Like seriously guys, i said this way a year ago. DO not only focus on one thing each iteration, you will drive your fan base away with lack of features and only 1 new thing each game. The whole game needs to improve each game not just 1 section of it.

[aholbert32]

Re: GPD's official response to Finish the Fight discussion

I called it before this game released in a post GPD was talking in.

I know this being a supervisor working in the Marine Industry.

You CANNOT DUMP ALL YOUR RESOURCES INTO ONE THING.

Like seriously guys, i said this way a year ago. DO not only focus on one thing each iteration, you will drive your fan base away with lack of features and only 1 new thing each game. The whole game needs to improve each game not just 1 section of it.

They didnt dump all their resources into one thing though. There was grappling and submission mocap. They just put most of their resources into the thing that needed improving the most.