EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

[Dave_S]

Obviously TBS would probably be the overall gold standard in submissions, with striking including, but as far as mini games are concerned I think UFC 2 nailed it.

UFC 3 hud especially felt like a step backwards. I just had a submission that really made me appreciate the more minimal approach ufc 2 had. Granted my opponent didn't attempt to escape, it's still much easier to see and appreciate the submission imo.

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[johnmangala]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

I want HUDless submissions.

We can keep the mini game if necessary but remove the overlay and keep it to fighter animation like in the stand up finding the sweet spot.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

LOL Don't even get me started. It's by far the worst I've play in any MMA game so far. I hate it with a passion. There's NO immersion of an actual submission battle. You're actual sub animation is only 4 seconds long since generally, the last gate is usually the only time the sub is actually sunk in besides maybe one or two subs. Just look at the animations during those gates, they are practically just sitting still not even looking like they are fighting for a position within those 4 seconds. No struggle, just going thru the motions of going from point A to B.

EA MMA was by far better and you actually had to manage your stamina while in the submission, also while the sub battles can actually last just a few seconds to almost a minute depending on ratings and stamina when applying the sub. No automatic/robotic 4 second gates and your done. There's no real intensity or drama. You know exactly how long each sub is going to take to complete once you look at the gates. The gates are too robotic in nature.

EA MMA, without a single doubt.
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Submissions should feel like a battle, not a race.

[Dave_S]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

I want as little hud or adjustable opacity. I'm talking more about what you see on screen and not the game itself.


I get what you are saying about battles playing out.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

I want as little hud or adjustable opacity. I'm talking more about what you see on screen and not the game itself.


I get what you are saying about battles playing out.

This is a huge gripe of mine, and I had to let it all out again lol. But wouldn't UFC 3's hud be better? It's off to the side and you can actually see your fighters resting nearly motionless until a gate is filled. lol Sorry, I had to, I really don't like anything about EA UFCs subs.

But even then, with EA MMA, the whole fade to black and just having to worry more about feeling your way in or out a sub was a better hud so to speak. You had to peak at the circle every now and then but you can watch the struggle unfold.

*Sorry it's bed time, I made so many errors in this original post. I know it's time to call it a night lol.

[iHazCode]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

Yeah, I have often wondered why people were ok with this overlay. In reality it's just a glorified QTE. I personally enjoy many games with QTE events but in general they have been pretty poorly received by the masses.

I liked the way other games did it, and one even had the option of going for a tactical submission/escape, and a brute force submission/escape which added another layer of strategy because if your stamina was high but your sub defense was low it occasionally made more sense to go the brute force escape route. When UFC 1 came out I assumed it would be a step ahead of these types of mechanics, but unfortunately with the overlay it feels like a jump backwards. It covers up the amazing visuals, plus it totally pulls me out of the fight, but maybe that's just me.

[Slickrick_Csc]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

LOL Don't even get me started. It's by far the worst I've play in any MMA game so far. I hate it with a passion. There's NO immersion of an actual submission battle. You're actual sub animation is only 4 seconds long since generally, the last gate is usually the only time the sub is actually sunk in besides maybe one or two subs. Just look at the animations during those gates, they are practically just sitting still not even looking like they are fighting for a position within those 4 seconds. No struggle, just going thru the motions of going from point A to B.

EA MMA was by far better and you actually had to manage your stamina while in the submission, also while the sub battles can actually last just a few seconds to almost a minute depending on ratings and stamina when applying the sub. No automatic/robotic 4 second gates and your done. There's no real intensity or drama. You know exactly how long each sub is going to take to complete once you look at the gates. The gates are too robotic in nature.

EA MMA, without a single doubt.
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Submissions should feel like a battle, not a race.

There’s not much I liked about ea mma but they had a cool career mode and I did like the sub systems in it. They were the most fun in terms of gameplay and I liked that it had different little games for choke and joint subs.

But I would love TBS over anything

[killakrok]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

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Wow, the black circle closing in and sound muffling is EXACTLY what it feels like getting chocked out. Pretty realistic and cool.

I'd love to see something like this come to EA UFC both in the slower struggle mechanic and audio/visual presentation.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

What does TBS stand for?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

Although I liked the submission system in EA MMA, I prefer the ones in EA UFC. There is one key variable that guides this taste: "the weight of the mini-game". In EA MMA, the joint locks minigame made very little difference. You could hardly turn a bad set up around. The chokes, however, made too much of a difference, both by skill and a bit of luck. You could easily turn a bad set up around. Also, in the grand scheme of things pretty much the only competitive submission was the triangle. The others weren't very much worth trying or were too hard to set up.

As to applying the EA MMA logic to the EA UFC animations (if you'd assume the devs would think it's desireable)... that would probably not work at all. EA MMA is totally based in a single struggle position. And there are effects that tell you about the proggression of the submission. EA UFC submissions are about a technical advancement of a multiple stages. If they'd go straight to stage 4, for instance, and just be iddle there for the whole submission minigame, it'd probably awkward, not to mention the gigantic waste of escape animations and the iddles of the other positions.

What does TBS stand for?

Transitions-Based Submissions. It doesn't refer to a specific design. It's more a general concept of a submission system that will play out like the rest of the grappling in the game.

[Yaari]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

My favorite minigames were the EA MMA ones because they were different and you could be better at chokes than you were at locking limbs. But that said, no game has had the bad graphics for the minigame like EA UFC 3 does now. It really takes you out of the game, and that aint good.

[tissues250]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

EA MMA, without a single doubt.
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Submissions should feel like a battle, not a race.

Sub struggle feel awesome. I forgot this one. Way better than ea ufcs system.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

Transitions-Based Submissions. It doesn't refer to a specific design. It's more a general concept of a submission system that will play out like the rest of the grappling in the game.

Thanks. Sounds pretty cool actually. Like maybe give the attacker a certain amount of "denial lives" based on their skill, and the defender basically has to deny the attacker's transitions for how many "denial lives" they have.

So for example, say a 4-stage submission, and the attacker has 3 "lives" and the defender has to deny 3 transitions between 4-stages to escape.

Idk just throwing out ideas.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

Thanks. Sounds pretty cool actually. Like maybe give the attacker a certain amount of "denial lives" based on their skill, and the defender basically has to deny the attacker's transitions for how many "denial lives" they have.

So for example, say a 4-stage submission, and the attacker has 3 "lives" and the defender has to deny 3 transitions between 4-stages to escape.

Idk just throwing out ideas.

I had fleshed out a similar concept this one you just mentioned. It was years ago, though. :P There are many different concepts for how it could work.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: EA UFC 2 submission mini game: The Gold standard in minigames?

Although I liked the submission system in EA MMA, I prefer the ones in EA UFC. There is one key variable that guides this taste: "the weight of the mini-game". In EA MMA, the joint locks minigame made very little difference. You could hardly turn a bad set up around. The chokes, however, made too much of a difference, both by skill and a bit of luck. You could easily turn a bad set up around. Also, in the grand scheme of things pretty much the only competitive submission was the triangle. The others weren't very much worth trying or were too hard to set up.

As to applying the EA MMA logic to the EA UFC animations (if you'd assume the devs would think it's desireable)... that would probably not work at all. EA MMA is totally based in a single struggle position. And there are effects that tell you about the proggression of the submission. EA UFC submissions are about a technical advancement of a multiple stages. If they'd go straight to stage 4, for instance, and just be iddle there for the whole submission minigame, it'd probably awkward, not to mention the gigantic waste of escape animations and the iddles of the other positions.


Transitions-Based Submissions. It doesn't refer to a specific design. It's more a general concept of a submission system that will play out like the rest of the grappling in the game.

If EA is going to revamp the grappling system as they've implied, we likely won't be dealing with the same mechanics we are now. More and more people are wanting a better way to grapple and not just tuning GA transitions. If EA does retool how grappling works, I would gladly take EA MMAs sub system over this current one.

You're racing to a finish instead of fighting for an opening, which really breaks the immersion of a sub all together. If the gates required some sort of stamina management during the act and not just before applying the sub, it would help. But instead, we're automatically given just 4 seconds to determine whether we advance into a sub every gate no matter what.

Currently, we complete each individual sub in the exact same amount of time. If you have a 4 gate sub, it's gonna take approx 16 seconds to tap the opponent, everytime! That's way to robotic, and it lacks the unpredictability & excitement of a sub irl. FTF subs can help, but you still realize you have automatic 4 sec windows per gate. We need sub battles where you can either slap on a sub and get a quick tap in just a couple of seconds or to have to work for it for a while or even just let it go because of stamina draining. But this system now is far too static, we need something more dynamic.

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